Cribs? For jack stands? Is this safe?
03-23-2022, 09:24 PM
#41
Drifting
I just did a little measuring. When on jackstands there is less that 50 inches in between the front and rear stands. On the cribs that opens up to about 80 inches. That is a huge difference. I am not arguing that I can get it higher in the air or anything. It is about the massive space it creates under the car to work.
03-23-2022, 10:49 PM
#43
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Trans/cltuch work? Put 'em way up front and way back in the rear. Put 'em under the k member up front, then under the frame immediately in front of the rear wheels.....for example. Or put 'em under the rails in front of the k member? The 4 jacking points are NOT the only places on the car that can support the car. The car is strong and virtually any place on the frame is easily capable of handling that task.
03-24-2022, 02:55 AM
#44
Drifting
WHY ARE PEOPLE LIMITED TO THIS??? Tiger Joe said the same thing. Others have to. I DON'T "GET IT". You can put the jack stands some where else....depending on the work!
Trans/cltuch work? Put 'em way up front and way back in the rear. Put 'em under the k member up front, then under the frame immediately in front of the rear wheels.....for example. Or put 'em under the rails in front of the k member? The 4 jacking points are NOT the only places on the car that can support the car. The car is strong and virtually any place on the frame is easily capable of handling that task.
Trans/cltuch work? Put 'em way up front and way back in the rear. Put 'em under the k member up front, then under the frame immediately in front of the rear wheels.....for example. Or put 'em under the rails in front of the k member? The 4 jacking points are NOT the only places on the car that can support the car. The car is strong and virtually any place on the frame is easily capable of handling that task.
Jackstands are great. I use them often. I also have ramps and use those often. If I need it up in the air and can use the cribs, that is simply my preference for the extra space. I also clean up my garage, get everything in order, park the daily outside and put the C4 in the center of the garage to work on it. I LIKE MY SPACE!!!!
03-24-2022, 08:45 AM
#45
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I'm not telling you anything...so why would I tell you "not to move your daily...."or whatever? 
What I'm saying is, if you like the space, (I like space too...see the Mustang pic?) then move jackstands further out the frame rails! Like to a locations, maybe....IDK....along the axle center line like you'd have w/cribbing? Only w/o the big, heavy, bulky cribbing? The point is: Cribbing vs. stands don't change or affect your working space....other than that the stands consume a smaller foot print under the car.
.
What I'm saying is, if you like the space, (I like space too...see the Mustang pic?) then move jackstands further out the frame rails! Like to a locations, maybe....IDK....along the axle center line like you'd have w/cribbing? Only w/o the big, heavy, bulky cribbing? The point is: Cribbing vs. stands don't change or affect your working space....other than that the stands consume a smaller foot print under the car.
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 03-24-2022 at 08:54 AM.
03-24-2022, 09:00 AM
#46
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
18.5" of clearance from the floor pan to the concrete when set on 12". Everything can be done on stands but I did my 1st clutch job on stands and the free space under the car is constrained for this 6'3" tall person. When I had the trans rebuilt and faceplated I built the cribs and the job was sooooooo much easier and smoother. I can basically break dance on the creeper under there when it is up on the cribs. No whacking my head on a jackstand lever or having to slide out and reposition. Other than that, I don't really know what to tell you other than it is my preference.
The dimensional issues...I don't "get". I'm guessing you have small (too small) jack stands? If your stands were too low, you can get higher -go up 18.5"/break dancing level w/your cribs, and I can go 28" w/my stands....that sounds to me like, too small stands? Is that a reasonable deduction?
03-24-2022, 09:16 AM
#47
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2003
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2022 C4 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I swear, if I ever build another garage, I will have a pit. I still remember my grandfather's Sunoco station had one. As a kid it looked like the gates to hell, and full of nasty ****. My cousin fell in it and was covered in Dino fluids lol. But dam are they nice (a lift would be there also). I was always told "can't build them anymore " , but in an episode of Last Man Standing, when he met Jay Lenos character, he had a pit in his garage, Nd it had a plastic slide cover. I thought that was sweet..anyways, sorry to sidetrack
03-24-2022, 09:22 AM
#48
Drifting
WHY ARE PEOPLE LIMITED TO THIS??? Tiger Joe said the same thing. Others have to. I DON'T "GET IT". You can put the jack stands some where else....depending on the work!
Trans/cltuch work? Put 'em way up front and way back in the rear. Put 'em under the k member up front, then under the frame immediately in front of the rear wheels.....for example. Or put 'em under the rails in front of the k member? The 4 jacking points are NOT the only places on the car that can support the car. The car is strong and virtually any place on the frame is easily capable of handling that task.
Trans/cltuch work? Put 'em way up front and way back in the rear. Put 'em under the k member up front, then under the frame immediately in front of the rear wheels.....for example. Or put 'em under the rails in front of the k member? The 4 jacking points are NOT the only places on the car that can support the car. The car is strong and virtually any place on the frame is easily capable of handling that task.
dude do you have to try to prove your point all the time? you have no experience with cribbing yet you want to tell us why we shouldnt use it. you also have no experience with C2s or C3s Im gathering. have you never heard the expression "more than one way to skin a cat"? just because YOU think jackstands are the best and if you use cribbing you are setting yourself up to be crushed by the car- cool! good for you dont use it. when i restored my C2 at one point during its restoration it was on everything I had- jackstands, cribbing, one of my lifts. different types of work called for different positioning of the car. could I have done it all on one or the other? yes, but since i have access to all, I choose to use what best fit my situation.
you keep saying "copy that" but you actually dont copy it. you were quick to make a comment back to me that "this was about work not storage" but yet you glossed right over how to do an alignment on your 2 post lift? I also disproved several of your points for jack stands, yet you just ignored what I said I used them once again. im sorry your garage is so small you dont have room to store cribbing. maybe next time build a bigger garage
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IHBD (03-24-2022)
03-24-2022, 09:44 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Weren't you the guy that started this thread, asking:
Now you're going to argue w/people responding to your question? Are you and Yakmaster the same guy?
This is: "Worryin' about **** that ain't worth worryin' about" ESPECIALLY w/in the context of "Are these (home made contraptions) safe?" The entire frame rail, from the K member right on back to the rear bumper, is way more than capable of supporting the load of being jacked on. While there are "jack points" the entire span of the rocker rail is the same metal, same cross section, same thickness....same-same. You can jack anywhere along the rocker rail (and other places too) and worry about nothing, from a structural stand point.
Now you're going to argue w/people responding to your question? Are you and Yakmaster the same guy?
This is: "Worryin' about **** that ain't worth worryin' about" ESPECIALLY w/in the context of "Are these (home made contraptions) safe?" The entire frame rail, from the K member right on back to the rear bumper, is way more than capable of supporting the load of being jacked on. While there are "jack points" the entire span of the rocker rail is the same metal, same cross section, same thickness....same-same. You can jack anywhere along the rocker rail (and other places too) and worry about nothing, from a structural stand point.
Last edited by Garack; 03-24-2022 at 10:21 AM.
03-24-2022, 10:22 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Im curious to know where the weight of the car is supposed to be resting on these cribs? Should it be on the cross pieces of 2x? or on the solid outer columns? I have seen black belts break 2x4s with their hands so I would say the weight should be on the outter columns not on the cross pieces which rationally should only serve to hold the columns in place. So far thats what Im getting from this discussion. The width of the cribs and where the tire is resting seems crucial to the safety thereof.
03-24-2022, 10:26 AM
#51
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Garack, they're safe if you build them right and use them right. Have at it. 
I've had pits too. I "get it" why people like those too...but they have draw backs. Big ones. You can still build a pit, but it needs two points of egress, positive ventilation, a way to cover it and some way to drain it. Up side is they're easy/fast. Down side?
Dark, Smelly, dirty, can't jack on 'em, can't do corner work, people can fall in them (and they do!).....for starters. The shop I manage has one pit left. We're filling it this summer and putting in a 4 post.
Oooh....this is gettin' good! I have no experience w/cribbing. I have no experience w/cribbing? Is that true??? 
I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion! PLEASE: tell us how you figured that out, genius....
Would you please quote where I said that? I'd like it if you could point out where I said that so that I can go correct it, right away. Thanks!
In fact, what I've actually said, have been things such as:
^That is quite a lot different than the fake claim that you just made. Wouldn't you say? I don't GAF and why would I? If the OP wants to build Linkin' Logs? HAVE AT IT. If you like carpentry? Give'r hell. I don't care. But when you start talking about how there is no room under the car, or it takes too long....yeah, I'm going to question the hell out of that b/c it ain't true. Then you get all defensive about my questions and start putting words in my mouth, that I never said. Admirable. 
To wit....
Again. Where did you glean that information from? This should be good. OP has a C4, in case you hadn't noticed.
Aaaaand again....please quote where I said that....or even anything remotely close to that...that'd be great. Thanks bud! I "get it" that there are many ways to do a job....I've tried most if not all of them in my career. I teach my crew that very point, so I "get it"....BUT, since I've done most if not all of these various ways, and since I get paid salary, I know that the fastest best way to get something done is the way that I'm going to do it....b/c the sooner it's done? The sooner I can get on to something I'd rather be doing. Thus, I'm going to share that.
Sorry it gets you all butt hurt. And while I thank you for the concern, You needn't worry about my garage size; I'm quite satisfied with it.
I swear, if I ever build another garage, I will have a pit. I still remember my grandfather's Sunoco station had one. As a kid it looked like the gates to hell, and full of nasty ****. My cousin fell in it and was covered in Dino fluids lol. But dam are they nice (a lift would be there also). I was always told "can't build them anymore " , but in an episode of Last Man Standing, when he met Jay Lenos character, he had a pit in his garage, Nd it had a plastic slide cover. I thought that was sweet..anyways, sorry to sidetrack
Dark, Smelly, dirty, can't jack on 'em, can't do corner work, people can fall in them (and they do!).....for starters. The shop I manage has one pit left. We're filling it this summer and putting in a 4 post.
I'd like to hear how you came to that conclusion! PLEASE: tell us how you figured that out, genius....Would you please quote where I said that? I'd like it if you could point out where I said that so that I can go correct it, right away. Thanks!
In fact, what I've actually said, have been things such as:
To wit....Again. Where did you glean that information from? This should be good.
OP has a C4, in case you hadn't noticed.Sorry it gets you all butt hurt. And while I thank you for the concern, You needn't worry about my garage size; I'm quite satisfied with it.
03-24-2022, 10:50 AM
#52
Melting Slicks
FWIW, I've seen cars sitting on cribs on episodes of Bitchin Rides and Iron Resurrection. I would think either of those shops could afford all the jack stands they could ever need and wouldn't likely support a paying customers car on something unsafe.
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SH-60B (03-24-2022)
03-24-2022, 12:16 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
03-24-2022, 12:17 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
exactly, that’s where I got the idea for making my own
03-24-2022, 12:21 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
Im curious to know where the weight of the car is supposed to be resting on these cribs? Should it be on the cross pieces of 2x? or on the solid outer columns? I have seen black belts break 2x4s with their hands so I would say the weight should be on the outter columns not on the cross pieces which rationally should only serve to hold the columns in place. So far thats what Im getting from this discussion. The width of the cribs and where the tire is resting seems crucial to the safety thereof.
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Fiberbundle (03-24-2022)
03-24-2022, 12:48 PM
#56
Drifting
Copy that on the preference. That, I "get". If you like it, you like it....good for you that you like a system.
The dimensional issues...I don't "get". I'm guessing you have small (too small) jack stands? If your stands were too low, you can get higher -go up 18.5"/break dancing level w/your cribs, and I can go 28" w/my stands....that sounds to me like, too small stands? Is that a reasonable deduction?
The dimensional issues...I don't "get". I'm guessing you have small (too small) jack stands? If your stands were too low, you can get higher -go up 18.5"/break dancing level w/your cribs, and I can go 28" w/my stands....that sounds to me like, too small stands? Is that a reasonable deduction?
If I must draw you a picture.......
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IHBD (03-24-2022)
03-24-2022, 01:23 PM
#57
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
Excellent point about tugging on things.I'll bite:
And the biggie: Drive on, get out, lift. No dicking around on your knees setting the hoist. No pushing back and forth to swing the arms under. No having to drive the car onto blocks to get enough height to get the arms under the car. (I have to do this for my C4s on my buddies 2-post.)
When I have to do corner work on my 4-post: I raise the car on the lift ungtil the runways are about 2' off the ground. I place cribbing under the crossmember, or on a C4 one rear corner at a time. Lower the hoist, the cribbing contacts the crossmember, and the tires rise off of the lift runways. I place jack stands (or sometimes 8X8 wood blocks under the a-arms) under the car on the runways. Raise the lift, put the cribbing away, and the corners are "up". Takes less than 3 minutes once the car is on to the lift.
Like any tool, your **** needs to be in good condition to be safe to use.
- Open the car's doors without worrying about bashing into the posts.
- Work in the under dash area standing up and reaching in.
- Detail the lower sections of the body.
- Exhaust work. (The suspension should be loaded so clearances are correctly established).
- Toe adjustments.
- Have a large, convenient, close by surface to set your tools, fasteners, loose parts, etc on while you work. (The runways.)
And the biggie: Drive on, get out, lift. No dicking around on your knees setting the hoist. No pushing back and forth to swing the arms under. No having to drive the car onto blocks to get enough height to get the arms under the car. (I have to do this for my C4s on my buddies 2-post.)
When I have to do corner work on my 4-post: I raise the car on the lift ungtil the runways are about 2' off the ground. I place cribbing under the crossmember, or on a C4 one rear corner at a time. Lower the hoist, the cribbing contacts the crossmember, and the tires rise off of the lift runways. I place jack stands (or sometimes 8X8 wood blocks under the a-arms) under the car on the runways. Raise the lift, put the cribbing away, and the corners are "up". Takes less than 3 minutes once the car is on to the lift.
Like any tool, your **** needs to be in good condition to be safe to use.
You're right about that short list of items above. Those are all things (or ways of doing things) that you can't do on a 2 post. We have a 2 post and a 4 post at work, so I use 'em both. Valid points that I agree with.
Except for exhaust work. You most certainly can and we do exhaust work on the 2 post....and it works out juuuuust fine. IDK why we're talking about lifts though.So....my question then is, in Drawing "or this" you have even MORE than 80" front to rear. Right?
Last edited by Tom400CFI; 03-24-2022 at 01:29 PM.
03-24-2022, 01:38 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I found this presentation about cribbing for First Responders. One thing I learned is that the working limit for a 4" timbers (2X4) is 6,000 pounds per contact point. That's 24,000 pounds with the load distributed over all 4 contact points. That's the equivalent of SIX entire C4s on one crib. I posit that cribbing has higher weight capacity than harbor freight jackstands do.....
03-24-2022, 02:25 PM
#59
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
That is excellent advice for people....should probably be posted many-a-time on here and other forums.
I've done it several times on my '92 and '89 on a 2 post and on jack stands. But i agree w/you that it's a lot of weight/balancing at one time. A trans jack helps....on the 2 post.
I knew I should have added "for over rear-axle work".
One task I've done several times on my 4-post which I couldn't do on a 2-post is remove a complete C4 exhaust system for clutch or transmission work by myself.I can lower the exhaust, walk it back, and balance it on the rear crossmember of the hoist. Sometimes I push it way back and it sits on the block wall behind the hoist. I'm sure it could be done by one person on a 2-poist, but it would take some finagling.
One task I've done several times on my 4-post which I couldn't do on a 2-post is remove a complete C4 exhaust system for clutch or transmission work by myself.I can lower the exhaust, walk it back, and balance it on the rear crossmember of the hoist. Sometimes I push it way back and it sits on the block wall behind the hoist. I'm sure it could be done by one person on a 2-poist, but it would take some finagling.
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IHBD (03-24-2022)
03-24-2022, 02:44 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
"Contact point" means the overlap of the boards. A 4"X4" overlap of 'soft timber' can support 6,000 pounds. 4 "columns" of cribbed 2X4 can support 24,000 pounds if the load is distributed to all 4 columns. The tire contacting two thwart-ship boards would evenly distribute the load to all 4 columns.
The length of the boards dictates the stability, and hence the safe maximum heigth of the stack. In the presentation I linked (did you look at it?) they have some examples of height vs width.
I've used and seen used cribbing in many applications. Particularly at the boat yards. (My vocation of 40 years is working on yachts and boats in the 50-70 foot range.) I prefer cribbing to jack stands for the stability. I've set 10,000 lb Detroit diesels on cribbing, gone under it and applied 250ft lbs to main bearing bolts with no concern whatsoever that I was going to dislodge it. I wouldn't do that on jack stands.
I have both jack stands and cribbing blocks in my home shop. Because I also have a 4-post lift, I rarely have to get under a car when it is supported by other means. But if I do, I prefer to use the cribbing, especially for long-term projects. And Krusty 84's point is valid. Placing the cribbing under the tires is not only more compact, but more stable as well. You can't put jack stands under tires.
Solid plywood should have a higher load capacity. A single sheet of $75 3/4 plywood in 12" squares will make two stacks 11" high. so you need $150 of plywood to lift the car 11". That plywood block is going to be pretty heavy. And because I have experience with using cribbing, this would be the biggie for me: You need two hands to lift and carry the block. Cribbing can be grabbed in the spaces to carry, and maneuver.
I made my cribbing 15 years ago when stud grade 2X4s were 89 cents at home depot. My cribs are 5-high and 6-high (4 of each) and 12" square. It took me an hour of work with the chop saw and the nail gun, and they still serve me well. They are stored on dirt in my carport, so a couple of them have termite damage and should be discarded, but I fully endorse using crossed cribbing, not plywood blocks. The crossed timbers are WAY more than strong enough. You won't like the plywood blocks if you can compare the two styles to each other.
The length of the boards dictates the stability, and hence the safe maximum heigth of the stack. In the presentation I linked (did you look at it?) they have some examples of height vs width.
I've used and seen used cribbing in many applications. Particularly at the boat yards. (My vocation of 40 years is working on yachts and boats in the 50-70 foot range.) I prefer cribbing to jack stands for the stability. I've set 10,000 lb Detroit diesels on cribbing, gone under it and applied 250ft lbs to main bearing bolts with no concern whatsoever that I was going to dislodge it. I wouldn't do that on jack stands.
I have both jack stands and cribbing blocks in my home shop. Because I also have a 4-post lift, I rarely have to get under a car when it is supported by other means. But if I do, I prefer to use the cribbing, especially for long-term projects. And Krusty 84's point is valid. Placing the cribbing under the tires is not only more compact, but more stable as well. You can't put jack stands under tires.
Solid plywood should have a higher load capacity. A single sheet of $75 3/4 plywood in 12" squares will make two stacks 11" high. so you need $150 of plywood to lift the car 11". That plywood block is going to be pretty heavy. And because I have experience with using cribbing, this would be the biggie for me: You need two hands to lift and carry the block. Cribbing can be grabbed in the spaces to carry, and maneuver.
I made my cribbing 15 years ago when stud grade 2X4s were 89 cents at home depot. My cribs are 5-high and 6-high (4 of each) and 12" square. It took me an hour of work with the chop saw and the nail gun, and they still serve me well. They are stored on dirt in my carport, so a couple of them have termite damage and should be discarded, but I fully endorse using crossed cribbing, not plywood blocks. The crossed timbers are WAY more than strong enough. You won't like the plywood blocks if you can compare the two styles to each other.
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IHBD (03-24-2022)