Hey guys,
I just did the head gaskets on my 86 vert. All went smoothly until I screwed up the timing. I turned my engine over to tdc and then marked my distributor location in two spot before removing it. Now I went to reinstall it and can't get the marks to line up. I'm always within a quarter inch. Does this mean I'm one tooth off? After messing with it for a couple hours I said "screw it, I'm just gonna try to start her up!". Well of course, she doesn't start. Just turns over and every once in a while I get very light smoke out of the intake (any ideas why?). I tested for spark and I'm all good there. I also have new Bosch fuel injectors installed, so I'm really stuck. Any ideas? I would appreciate any help.

 

I look to YouTube for this kind of stuff. I did not watch, but these may help you.

 

Thanks for the videos. I have actually watched all of those except for the last one (which I just watched) . I'm really at a loss right now. I've done tons of research and fiddled with it for hours now. I've never timed an engine before, but I'm pretty handy so I thought could figure it out. Guess I was a little too optimistic.

 

Just asking, but why did you play with your timming chain just to change the cylinder head gasket?

 

I didn't mess with the chain, just the distributor. You have to turn the engine over to set the lash on the lifters while the distributor is out. So when I reset the engine to TDC, now for some reason the distributor doesn't quite line up with my marks and my engine won't fire.

 

Ok. The easiest thing to do is take the distributor back out. Take out the spark plugs and rotate the crank from the harmonic balance pulley bolt while holding a finger in cylinder 1 sparkplug hold until you feel pressure blowing it out. That's is that cylinders compression stroke. Watch your timing mark on the harmonic balancer it should be at or near the 0 in the timing tab. (As long as the balancer is right) Line the crank up with that 0 and you will be at top dead center. Now take your distributor with the cap off and place it in the distributor hole with the connection tabs facing towards the driver side. While dropping the dizzy in the last time you would have noticed the button slight turns as it slides in. You will want to adjust the rotor button a little before hand so that it drops down with the contact right on the number 1 mark. It may be labeled 1 or PTC it varies on different distributors. On the stock distributor it's labeled 1.
it's ok if it doesn't seat all the way hits the oil pump due to the oil pump slot not being lined up. That often happens when changing dizzys. All you do is, with the distributor still in (but not in all the way because of the mismatched slot) is rotate the crank. That will rotate the dizzy button with the camshaft and crank keeping everything "in time" until the dizzy is able to slide down on the oil pump slot at the correct angle.

After that you can do one full rotation of the crank until you are back at TDC and double check your rotor button is for certain at the number 1 firing position.

This will get you at 0 BTDC or pretty close to it. It should run.
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Go ahead and set your timing with a timing light and advance to 6 BTDC.

 

The last vid is much the same as what Larry posted. I am wondering if you perhaps mistook the exhaust stroke of the engine for compression stroke? You would then be 360 degrees out of phase, with ignition occurring at top of exhaust stroke rather than top of compression stroke. Don’t want to insult your engine intelligence but most people (not into engines) don’t realize that the crankshaft makes two turns for every single turn of the distributor.

Just tryin to help.

 

Online diagnostics. How I love it.

Couple of questions, how did you set valve lash? You had all that stuff apart, so we need to visit that too.

Regarding the 180° out question, does the mark on your distributor show the rotor pointing at #1 plug wire? If you were on exhaust stroke when you marked it, it would be pointing opposite #1. And, if so, as stated above, were you on compression when you reinstalled it?

Okay, a couple is two, but there's one more. Being only a 1/4" out is it possible that you turned the engine opposite of rotation at any point to align the timing marks? Turning an engine backwards reverses all the slop in the timing train and can mean several degrees of mismatch between the crank and the driven components compared to how they normally operate.

Okay, two more. How many miles on the engine? Those nylon covered timing gears can cause all kinds of unpleasant timing issues when they fail.

 

The reason why it wont start is because its at tdc of exaust and not compresion stroke. Do 1 full turn of ur engine and put the cap back

 

I set the lash based off of the service manual method. I made sure to follow it to a "T" and I turned the engine over by hand afterwards several times to make sure nothing was loose. I know for sure I was on the compression stroke when I took the engine apart, because the distributor was pointing to the number 1 cylinder. I also know it is on the compression stroke because I felt air being forced out of the combustion chamber.
I do recall that I turned the engine the opposite direction maybe a quarter of an inch, which makes a lot of sense. Does this mean my engine is screwed? I didn't think that such a small amount would cause so many issues, guess that shows how much I know. My engine has 90,000 miles on it, so not terribly high but also not young.​​​​​

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QUOTE=flyboyslc1;1607697478]The last vid is much the same as what Larry posted. I am wondering if you perhaps mistook the exhaust stroke of the engine for compression stroke? You would then be 360 degrees out of phase, with ignition occurring at top of exhaust stroke rather than top of compression stroke. Don’t want to insult your engine intelligence but most people (not into engines) don’t realize that the crankshaft makes two turns for every single turn of the distributor.

Just tryin to help.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the response and advice, always looking to learn some new! I am very sure I was on the compression stroke, as I felt air being pushed out of the cylinder as I turned the engine over by hand. I have also heard that when the engine is 360 degrees out of phase it will backfire when you try to start it. Mine doesn't backfire at all, it just spins and spins.

 

If you turned it backwards to line it up that might explain your 1/4" discrepancy on the marks, but not the rest of it.

Based on other posts here, and general experience 90K is near the timeframe when the nylon gear teeth tend to fail. Try barring the engine in both directions with the cap off the distributor. The rotor should move with a few degrees of rotation. If it takes a lot of movement when you change directions the timing gear may be shot.

They'll still run that way tho, so that also does not explain a no-start. My next guess would be to do a compression test. That would tell you if something is up with the valve train or the timing chain.

 

Your first post says you tested for spark and we’re good. How did you do that? Have you put a fuel pressure gauge on the rails after changing injectors to verify you have pressure?

 

Ah crap, well I'll have to check that tomorrow after I get off work. What would you say is I "a lot of movement"? Like should it pretty much move instantly when I change directions?
I'll have to pick up a compression tester asap. If I find I have low compression, does this mean my valve train is screwed up?

 

I had a good spark plug laying around and I pulled one of the plug wires and grounded the spark plug. I tested all wires and saw spark on every one (I also installed new NKG plugs on the car). I have not put a fuel pressure gauge on yet. I'll have to pick one up. I smelled a very strong fuel smell after turning the engine over a few times. Pulled all the plugs and they were wet. I suppose that doesn't mean I have good fuel pressure though...

 

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I couldn't tell you exactly in degrees, but it should respond pretty quickly. There's not a lot of slop in a healthy timing chain and the cam / distributor gears.

Low compression would likely point to a valvetrain issue, especially if it's evenly low across all cylinders. @$$uming you had good compression before you started on your project.

In racing we had a "only change one thing at a time" rule. But it's true for all situations like this. It worked before, and now it doesn't. What was the last thing you did? You've did several things here, so we have to look at all of them. The other possibility is that it was just lousy coincidence. But that's way less common.

 

Here's another cover all the bases question. Did you double-check that the firing order on the plug wires is correct?

 

Okay so I got antsy and went out and turned the engine back and forth by hand, seems like the distributor changes directions pretty quickly, with only a minor delay.

​​I realize now I really should have check compression before starting this project, it just ran so well I didn't even think to do so. Fired up right away all the time and good power.

​​​​​​Here's kinda a brief explanation of the steps I took:
1. Set lash based on the 1986 Vette manual
2. Found TDC on cylinder 1 by placing my finger over the spark plug hole and felt compression.
3. Lined up my distributor with my marks as best I could (roughly 1/4" off) pointing at cylinder 1
4. Checked and double-checked my spark plug wires to make sure they were correct.
5. Turned engine over several times = no start. Turned engine over while pulling throttle cable = no start.
6. I adjusted the distributor about 1 tooth clockwise, this resulted in a very loud backfire.
7. I moved the distributor back to the position I had it in before because I got scared lol

That's all the major stuff I've done so far.

 

Also, one more bit of info. When I changed the head gaskets I drained a decent amount of the coolant. I have not added anymore yet because I wanted to flush the whole system with distilled water to clean it out. But I wanted to make sure the engine runs before I add water (I figured it might not start and I didn't want the cooling system to be full of water and start rusting). Anyways, my question is, is it possible my engine won't start because the coolant is too low? Is there some sort of safety sensor that does not allow the engine to start? I know it's probably a stretch, but figured I'd ask you knowledgeable folks just in case.

 

Quick update,
I didn't have time after work to pick up a compression tester, but I decided to try the whole timing process over again. Everything went the same way, the engine would not fire. However, this time I noticed raw fuel actually spraying out of the intake manifold!! I just installed Bosch III injectors rated at 22lbs of pressure (I think I said they were new in a previous post, I meant to say remanufactured by SouthBay Fuel Injectors). Anyone know what would cause so much fuel to spray out? Could it be an issue with my fuel pressure regulator? I turned the engine over for about 5-7 seconds without it firing. Is that enough time to build up so much fuel in the cylinders that it would spray out of the intake? Sorry for so many questions, just trying to get somewhere, seems like it's only getting worse.