Free Mods?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by jzvette
SPDAVE,
How do you get the stars after your name???
How do you get the stars after your name???
No, You can now support the forum and buy some big stars. Check the "SUPPORTING MEMBERS PROGRAM" Sticky at top by Troy Roberts.
As far as the little ones go, I'll pm you. Dont want to start a rash of free posters.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Actually I think you will see the 10chp gain by removing the frisbee from an '89-'91 L98 though it is lighter than the original '88 version.
The reason is that the overall mass has been reduced but mass at the thicker rim was increased. Since the moment of inertia is the mass times the distance from the axis to the location of the center of mass, having a thin disk with a heavy rim (3lbs) can have the same moment of inertia as a heavy disk of uniform mass (10lbs). This means that either configuration could require the same hp during acceleration. This can be verified by making some passes down the 1/4 mile before and after removing the later frisbee and comparing trap speeds.
I took the frisbee off my '88 soon as I returned from speaking with Gordone at Corvettes at Carlisle 2001 and have never had any belt squeal since.
The reason for mentioning cut-back spark plugs was with economy in mind as the cost of a set of OEM style plugs will require spending the least amount of $$.
The reason is that the overall mass has been reduced but mass at the thicker rim was increased. Since the moment of inertia is the mass times the distance from the axis to the location of the center of mass, having a thin disk with a heavy rim (3lbs) can have the same moment of inertia as a heavy disk of uniform mass (10lbs). This means that either configuration could require the same hp during acceleration. This can be verified by making some passes down the 1/4 mile before and after removing the later frisbee and comparing trap speeds.
I took the frisbee off my '88 soon as I returned from speaking with Gordone at Corvettes at Carlisle 2001 and have never had any belt squeal since.
The reason for mentioning cut-back spark plugs was with economy in mind as the cost of a set of OEM style plugs will require spending the least amount of $$.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas / Scotland
Originally Posted by skateparkdave
Do a search, alot of members frown on the Bosch platinum 4 plugs and say.. 
I had them and had a low idle miss shortly after installing. I then switched to cut back AC delco rapid fire #5's and had great success. I recently switched to a colder NGK plug to run with my nitrous which brings up another thing..never run any platinum plugs with nitrous. Never.
I had them and had a low idle miss shortly after installing. I then switched to cut back AC delco rapid fire #5's and had great success. I recently switched to a colder NGK plug to run with my nitrous which brings up another thing..never run any platinum plugs with nitrous. Never.Is there any evidence that platinum and NoS don't work well? Or is it another OWT ?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by 65Z01
Actually I think you will see the 10chp gain by removing the frisbee from an '89-'91 L98 though it is lighter than the original '88 version.
The reason is that the overall mass has been reduced but mass at the thicker rim was increased. Since the moment of inertia is the mass times the distance from the axis to the location of the center of mass, having a thin disk with a heavy rim (3lbs) can have the same moment of inertia as a heavy disk of uniform mass (10lbs). This means that either configuration could require the same hp during acceleration. This can be verified by making some passes down the 1/4 mile before and after removing the later frisbee and comparing trap speeds.
I took the frisbee off my '88 soon as I returned from speaking with Gordone at Corvettes at Carlisle 2001 and have never had any belt squeal since.
The reason for mentioning cut-back spark plugs was with economy in mind as the cost of a set of OEM style plugs will require spending the least amount of $$.
The reason is that the overall mass has been reduced but mass at the thicker rim was increased. Since the moment of inertia is the mass times the distance from the axis to the location of the center of mass, having a thin disk with a heavy rim (3lbs) can have the same moment of inertia as a heavy disk of uniform mass (10lbs). This means that either configuration could require the same hp during acceleration. This can be verified by making some passes down the 1/4 mile before and after removing the later frisbee and comparing trap speeds.
I took the frisbee off my '88 soon as I returned from speaking with Gordone at Corvettes at Carlisle 2001 and have never had any belt squeal since.
The reason for mentioning cut-back spark plugs was with economy in mind as the cost of a set of OEM style plugs will require spending the least amount of $$.
Originally Posted by stevec4
I've read the threads re the Platinum+4s but with my standard L98 (the only mods are a K&N, cut lid and air foil) I've had no problems whatsoever although I did change my plug wires to MSD 8.5s at the same time - maybe they need more kV to operate well and old wires just don't deliver (which could also explain your idle miss).
Is there any evidence that platinum and NoS don't work well? Or is it another OWT ?
Is there any evidence that platinum and NoS don't work well? Or is it another OWT ?
An old wives tale?, I'm not sure about that either. I found this among being told by countless people not to run platinum before installing my nitrous system.
Nitrous Oxide Injection
1. Try to avoid platinum (particularly double platinum) plugs. There are suggestions that a chemical reaction may occur and some unusual deposits will form on the electrodes - these may impede ignition performance. Double platinum plugs (where a platinum 'chip' is welded into the ground electrode) may be at risk from the platinum chip becoming detached in extreme temperatures, the surrounding electrode material will doubtless have a lower melting point. A platinum chip dropping into the combustion chamber could be disastrous.
Quoted from this website-- http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/t...park-plugs.htm
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Chino Hills CA
wait so now im confused.... i thought the frisbee was only on the 89-91 models. but now your sayin that earler c4s had an even bigger frisbee??? i guess i just want to know... does my 86 have it or not?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by texan0218
wait so now im confused.... i thought the frisbee was only on the 89-91 models. but now your sayin that earler c4s had an even bigger frisbee??? i guess i just want to know... does my 86 have it or not?
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 7
From: Lahaina Hi
The platinum plugs retain to much heat and can cause the fuel to pre heat the plug.
The excess heat will burn off the electrode and it will get caught in your valve or valve seat.
Or cause a ping and bang.
Engine will run to hot.
The reason platinum work well is because they don't lose there heat between Each cylendar firing.
The excess heat will burn off the electrode and it will get caught in your valve or valve seat.
Or cause a ping and bang.
Engine will run to hot.
The reason platinum work well is because they don't lose there heat between Each cylendar firing.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
texan0218, the frisbee first appeared in '88 due to occasional vibration noticed when the new (changed from '85-'87) A/c compressor cycled. In this first year the frisbee was a 10" diameter disk of uniform thickness, ~3/8" thick. and weighed about 10lbs.
This original "design" was simplicity itself and leads me to believe that it was simply slapped on in an attempt to cover a perceived problem that was noticed at the last minute, perhaps when the vehicle was already in production testing.
The next year the frisbee design was changed to a thin steel disk with a thick heavy band around it's outer perimeter and overall weight was reduced to 3lbs.
This latter unit looks like it even had some engineering thought into it, though it was still a "band aid".
Apparently the frisbee was born in a manner similar to the heat sink fins inside the TPI MAF. Remember these were put in because one test MAF failed during testing in the intense heat of Death Valley.
The bottom line is that the D ported Al heads introduced in '88 really brought 10chp over the pior Al head design, but that gain was sucked up by the cursed frisbee.
This original "design" was simplicity itself and leads me to believe that it was simply slapped on in an attempt to cover a perceived problem that was noticed at the last minute, perhaps when the vehicle was already in production testing.
The next year the frisbee design was changed to a thin steel disk with a thick heavy band around it's outer perimeter and overall weight was reduced to 3lbs.
This latter unit looks like it even had some engineering thought into it, though it was still a "band aid".
Apparently the frisbee was born in a manner similar to the heat sink fins inside the TPI MAF. Remember these were put in because one test MAF failed during testing in the intense heat of Death Valley.
The bottom line is that the D ported Al heads introduced in '88 really brought 10chp over the pior Al head design, but that gain was sucked up by the cursed frisbee.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by 65Z01
texan0218, the frisbee first appeared in '88 due to occasional vibration noticed when the new (changed from '85-'87) A/c compressor cycled.
Guess it was 88. 
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas / Scotland
Originally Posted by REDC4CORVETTE
The platinum plugs retain to much heat and can cause the fuel to pre heat the plug.
The excess heat will burn off the electrode and it will get caught in your valve or valve seat.
Or cause a ping and bang.
Engine will run to hot.
The reason platinum work well is because they don't lose there heat between Each cylendar firing.
The excess heat will burn off the electrode and it will get caught in your valve or valve seat.
Or cause a ping and bang.
Engine will run to hot.
The reason platinum work well is because they don't lose there heat between Each cylendar firing.
Bosch Platinum plugs (especially the +4) offer a much wider heat range than copper cored plugs - if you are 'burning' off electrodes (highly unlikely and show me someone who has actually experienced this using Bosch or NGK plugs) then your choice of plug number is incorrect.
The 4 electrode plugs generate a much higher spark discharge pressure (which results in more spark energy being added to the fuel/air mixture) and are more resistant to corrosion and errosion. Platinum is an excellent conductor of heat!
I will say that all Platinum plugs are not created equal.
Whilst I have found a lot of people who suggest that we should not use Platinum with Nos, I can't find a single plug manufacturer that says no.
It seems like we all know someone who had a problem when they installed company X's plugs, wires, maf, oil filter, oil, screen wash etc etc
By the way, I can't find anyone who says that Iridium plugs are bad for Nos
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by stevec4
As I thought - these are all conjecture and old wives tales.
Whilst I have found a lot of people who suggest that we should not use Platinum with Nos, I can't find a single plug manufacturer that says no.
Whilst I have found a lot of people who suggest that we should not use Platinum with Nos, I can't find a single plug manufacturer that says no.
Now a dealer of things will usually come clean. Like this company....go have a look at what they say about platinim plugs and N2O.
http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/t...park-plugs.htm
If thats not enough, here's what Popular Hot Rodding and Edlebrock have to say...
http://www.hotrod.com/garage/113_0411_n2o/index2.html
Wives tale or not, why take the chance with platinum with N20 if so many that have experience say
??
Last edited by skateparkdave; May 4, 2005 at 10:30 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas / Scotland
Originally Posted by skateparkdave
Wives tale or not, why take the chance with platinum with N20 if so many that have experience say ??
??Whilst I'm not saying that these other guys are wrong (who are 'spark-plugs.co.uk' anyway?) but there are platinum plugs and there are platinum plugs and if we are missing a trick due to rumors and conjecture (or tests from inferior plugs) then we should at least question it and say 'wheres the proof'.
I have to seriously question the statement from the co.uk site that 'There are suggestions that a chemical reaction may occur and some unusual deposits will form on the electrodes - these may impede ignition performance' - I know of no such chemical reaction with Platinum and I guess my wife is gonna get a bit pi$$ed if her wedding band starts rusting any time soon
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 10
From: Lufkin Texas
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by stevec4
Simply because I believe that the design of the Bosch +4 has the potential to release significant extra hp due to their open design which is akin to the old trick of cutting back the electrode on a standard plug - that trick has been dyno proven to offer 3-5hp on a standard motor.
Whilst I'm not saying that these other guys are wrong (who are 'spark-plugs.co.uk' anyway?) but there are platinum plugs and there are platinum plugs and if we are missing a trick due to rumors and conjecture (or tests from inferior plugs) then we should at least question it and say 'wheres the proof'.
I have to seriously question the statement from the co.uk site that 'There are suggestions that a chemical reaction may occur and some unusual deposits will form on the electrodes - these may impede ignition performance' - I know of no such chemical reaction with Platinum and I guess my wife is gonna get a bit pi$$ed if her wedding band starts rusting any time soon
Whilst I'm not saying that these other guys are wrong (who are 'spark-plugs.co.uk' anyway?) but there are platinum plugs and there are platinum plugs and if we are missing a trick due to rumors and conjecture (or tests from inferior plugs) then we should at least question it and say 'wheres the proof'.
I have to seriously question the statement from the co.uk site that 'There are suggestions that a chemical reaction may occur and some unusual deposits will form on the electrodes - these may impede ignition performance' - I know of no such chemical reaction with Platinum and I guess my wife is gonna get a bit pi$$ed if her wedding band starts rusting any time soon
To answer your question 'spark-plugs.co.uk' are one of the United Kingdom and Europes biggest specialized dealers of Denso, NGK and Champion spark plugs and glo plugs ect. and other ignition goods. I'm not here to defend or promote them in any way but I believe they know spark plugs.
I didn't intend on hijacking this thread the way we have and there are no hard feelings. If you want to spray nitrous with bosch platinums thats your business, be my guest. I'm not going to
I think I'll stick with the advise of those who have "been there done that".It's all good.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,858
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria CA
Originally Posted by skateparkdave
Do a search, alot of members frown on the Bosch platinum 4 plugs and say.. I had them and had a low idle miss shortly after installing. I then switched to cut back AC delco rapid fire #5's and had great success.
I had them and had a low idle miss shortly after installing. I then switched to cut back AC delco rapid fire #5's and had great success. 
But I had the regular Bosch Platinum plugs instead. Car would miss at idle even though they where new. Switched to regular AC Delco's and it idles incredibly smooth and runs better too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Thought this was about free mods?
Ive read this thread and have found there are others w/ the same O. C. DISORDER like myself, I guess thats why we own vettes!!! 
My comment here is in regard to the plugs mentioned, it was stated about hte bosch and n20. I can see potentially those comments could be true, isnt the platinum simply a plated process?(I would suspect) If so this would open the door for issues to occour, without going in depth regarding plating procedures, usually another base metal (substance) is applied to create a base of adhession. Even if is not, introducing other elements to metal w/heat has a result, in its simpilest form heat treating (@approx.1800f.-2800f. while hotter than a combustion chamber it is to exemplify the possibilities- other results w/different metals DO occour @ lower temps.) While the design may, in theory, have more potential and more appealing (marketing) are you really seeing that gain, on a dyno, or otherwise in an empirical method?
Now Im not bashin here, but I would like to see "real" results, not a mfgs. add endorsement to sell prod.
Guys, for many years have made BIG power on champions and delcos, if Ive got to worry about my only gain in a motor coming from the plug, well than its time to do more real mods. just my .02
My comment here is in regard to the plugs mentioned, it was stated about hte bosch and n20. I can see potentially those comments could be true, isnt the platinum simply a plated process?(I would suspect) If so this would open the door for issues to occour, without going in depth regarding plating procedures, usually another base metal (substance) is applied to create a base of adhession. Even if is not, introducing other elements to metal w/heat has a result, in its simpilest form heat treating (@approx.1800f.-2800f. while hotter than a combustion chamber it is to exemplify the possibilities- other results w/different metals DO occour @ lower temps.) While the design may, in theory, have more potential and more appealing (marketing) are you really seeing that gain, on a dyno, or otherwise in an empirical method?
Now Im not bashin here, but I would like to see "real" results, not a mfgs. add endorsement to sell prod.
Guys, for many years have made BIG power on champions and delcos, if Ive got to worry about my only gain in a motor coming from the plug, well than its time to do more real mods. just my .02
Last edited by mseven; May 5, 2005 at 07:43 AM. Reason: edit
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas / Scotland
This is why I enjoy CF so much - at least we can have discussions that don't revert to arguments
The platinum is a welded process on some plugs, a plated process on others (cheaper ones) and a solid insert on others - you can work out which is best
I've had nothing but success with +4s on my regular motor with new MSD wires and no I don't run Nitrous on the Vette but I run propane (LPG) on my Scorpio which has the same issues.
I'm off to check my wheels - which way are they meant to point?
The platinum is a welded process on some plugs, a plated process on others (cheaper ones) and a solid insert on others - you can work out which is best
I've had nothing but success with +4s on my regular motor with new MSD wires and no I don't run Nitrous on the Vette but I run propane (LPG) on my Scorpio which has the same issues.
I'm off to check my wheels - which way are they meant to point?
Last edited by stevec4; May 5, 2005 at 12:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 5
From: Middle Earth
Originally Posted by JrRifleCoach
By spending way too much time posting on the CF 
BTW Your wheels on on backwards there bro!
BTW Your wheels on on backwards there bro!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1074014
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas / Scotland
That thread don't help - they don't say which is correct.
Do the spokes point in towards direction of travel or back against the direction of travel.
How many others have theirs on the wrong way round ?
Do the spokes point in towards direction of travel or back against the direction of travel.
How many others have theirs on the wrong way round ?
