My 1992 died tonite... and I have no idea what happened.

Specs: 1992 LT1/6spd, LTCC, AFPR, Blue Tops, Denso Iridum plugs, Taylor wires, 134k miles.

The last few days, it's picked up a COLD hard start problem. I just would not start. After it started, it would be just fine.

Tonite, tho, on my way to a local car show it just quit. Stopped running. No warning, nada. Silence.

I parked it (thankfully, just up the street) and proceeded to walk home to get my books and some hand tools.

It has all the makings of no spark... I checked a couple of the plugs and they are damp and smell of gas. The LTCC unit is clean and dry inside, the coils are getting power, the various connections made to make the LTCC interface are good and solid. The TPS and CTS are both within spec. The MAP requires the engine to be running, which means I can't test it yet; and the fuel pump fires up. No codes in the CCM or ECM.

I tried to restart it and after a while, it just wouldn't crank anymore. I cleaned the battery posts (which were icky) and tried again.

Now, it won't crank. Volts go from 12.x to 8, and the motor does not budge. Not even a little bit. I tried to jump it with no success...

I know the obvious problem, something has taken a crap in the motor, but I can't afford that to be the problem...

Which leads to questions:

1) Could the starter have taken a crap? I think it's possible. I want to take a breaker bar and test to be sure the motor will turn over.

2) Can a battery show a nominal 13 volts and not have enough to crank the motor? I think the answer is yes, but I want to be sure. I am thinking of borrowing the battery from bastet44's 87 to see if it cranks.

3) I have heard of OptiSparks dying like this... does this fit that behaviour? I am thinking this is culpret #1.

4) Am I screwed?

Thanks!!!

 

BOGUS, RIP.
you know i'm not an lt1 person, but i'm going to be there pretty soon so i have been listening to the complaints of other lt1 owners and while reading your post, the first thing to jump into my pea brain was the optispark. is there any way to test one without pulling it out? otherwise, from all i've been hearing, they are a pita to pull. lotsa luck, and say hi to bastet for me

 

Yes, a battery can easiliy show proper voltage when no load is applied.

 

Bogas,
It could definatly be a bad starter or Bat.

 

You're doing or planning to do everything I would to this point. I've seen batteries that would otherwise start the vehicle, as yours did until now, cause all kinds of bizarre symtoms on electronic engines. Obviously your starter could be junk now too although if that was part of the original problem it should have given more trouble hot than cold. And it certainly wouldn't explain the car quitting. A lot of amperage is required for these cars, even after starting and hopefully that will be your problem and it just puked gradually over the last few days. I know you'll keep us posted.

 

I just got back from the car...

I was able to turn the motor up with a breaker bar. Life is relieved.

I also put a Mighty-Mite battery booster on it and it was able to get a couple of cranks. I think this cold start problem has killed the battery. I can't bitch, the battery is FIVE YEARS OLD!!!! I am going to get a new one tomorrow afternoon and see what happens.

Now I am back to the original problem.... the cold start, and why did it die like it did... I have gas, no spark...

Sleazy - the LTCC bypasses the highvoltage side, so it is possible that the low voltage side failed - but no codes... bastet says hi!!!

Thanks, gang!!!

 

Actually it might could if the alternator isn't charging the battery. The car could start and run until the battery dies completely.

When the POS Die Hard battery in my car died I was able to jump start the car and drive it about a mile before it died completely. You see without a proper input voltage, an alternator will not charge a battery. In my case the battery didn't have enough juice to start the car but it did have enough to keep it running, for about a mile. When it finally quit there was nothing I could do to start it back, not even from a 40 MPH roll.

If your battery / alternator is going out there is no telling what strange stuff could be going on.

 

Sounds suspiciously like what happened when my opti died, it just quit running; No codes, wet plugs, although I did get a very weak spark when I grounded the plug against the block. I wish I could help further but I chose to let a shop repair it and I am very happy I did. The first opti they put in was dead from the git-go so they had to replace it twice. I had them replace the water pump too. That was about 38K miles ago. Good luck.

Oh.... it died at about 87K.

 

Back in the late 80s, I worked for a couple of years at a place that sold batteries, alternators, starters, etc. installing them, troubleshooting these systems and other general automotive electrical work. This bozo comes in with a battery one day and wants it checked. Fine, so I hook it to the load tester and see that it has sufficient voltage for a load test. I told him as I put the required load to it that the voltage was good, in fact it had a full charge so I could do the test w/o charging it first. It would take no load at all, it was completely shot. The guy said, "I thought you said it was fully charged?" "It is" I told him and tried to explain the volts but no amps thing but it was completely lost on him. He thought I was BSing him to sell him a battery and actually got so mad that I thought he might actually get physical. He finally just picked up his battery and stormed out. Dealing with the public... ya' gotta love it!
Glad to hear it turned over by hand, whew! Don't be surprised if a battery fixes everything, it's possible.

 

I am worried about the alternator... it's a junk reman from Kragen (I know...). I hope the warrantee is intact.

The first reman I got from them took a dump the same day! I exchanged it, and I know how this works, the warrantee is good for the first lifetime... covers their asses from selling us garbage.

I had no signs of low voltages, tho. The voltage has been over 13.5. That's fine.

We are going to get some food... then to a movie. Since it's dark, I ain't getting much done until tomorrow. I will check this thread later tonite!

Thanks again, guys!!!

 

Bogus,
I had two Optis with problems after my rebuild and one of them had simlar symptoms to yours. Hard start in the morning and then the thing just up and died. Another posiblity that would give similar problems is the fuel pump. Good luck and i hope the batery takes care of the cranking problem. BTW just so you dont feel alone my car started acting up today as well I have noticed the last three times I went to start the car I have to turn the Key two or three times before it starts to crank, I am hoping it is a bad starter syl.

 

People don't understand electricity. Voltage, Current, Resistance, they might as well be the same thing to most people. A friend of mine actually asked me how many amps come out of the standard wall outlet. I answered him, "How many do you want?"

A mechanic friend of mine told me that he was going to "ohm out" a circuit, almost as good as "checking the ohmage."

Then there are the people who look at the wiring on our '46 pickup and wonder why everything is so big. Afterall it's a 6 volt system, it shouldn't require any wire bigger than 12 volt right?

Sometimes it can be enough to make me want to cry.

 

I dont have an LT1 but alternator was the first thing I thought. Combine that with a dieing or dead cell in a battery and when voltage drops below about 11.7 ..it's goodbye fuel pump, goodbye ECM, goodbye everything. If it was just the battery then the alternator should run the car once started. But if the alternator is bad the systems run off whats left of the battery and if it's not up to par this will finish it off. Also visa versa in that a dieing battery will make an alternator work overtime in an attemp to charge AND run systems. Try jumping it with another vehicle and see if it runs while connected then dies after removal of cables. If the battery is completely shot it may not jump though.

I would think with a bad opti the starter would still turn over. That sort of rules that out. At least to be the only trouble.

My $ is on alternator and battery combination.

Well I see others have also suggested this. I was at my business with tons of kids distracting me and I walked away from the pc to take care of a customer then came back 20 mins later and replied without updating. Doh!!

My $ is STILL on alternator and battery combination though. BUT, you may still have something else causing the cold start issue which could have started the battery problem and led to the alternator trouble.
Damn domino effects!

 

Yep, good old G.S. Ohm and his law.

Not as many people know it as you would think should.

 

I'm voting on a cracked plate in the battery..it'll show 12+ V all day long..until you try "using" that 12V

 

Gawd, I miss the South sometimes... 17 years in TN/GA, and phrases like that still make me do a double-take.

Bogus, I hope you solve your problems... I don't have much to say here that already hasn't been said, so I'll just in the meantime.

 

Just let Nathan take it in for you. He's got the magic!

Just out of curiosity, how many miles on your Opti?

Good Luck! &

 

I assume that if it didn't run while jumped from bastet's battery, then your battery is ok. Well, you knew that.

 

I have one advantage to using the LTCC - it has a built in error code. If I can get the motor to crank 50 complete revs, I will be able to see any error code the Opti might be creating.

I agree, the battery is a good start for all of these problems. It's also the cheapest. If by chance, a new battery works, I will then have the alternator tested. If that passes, then I will be satisfied that the battery is the bad guy.

When the engine quit, everything else continued to work... I do have fuel, just no spark. That's why I think it's the opti. It has been in for 4 years and 75k miles.

I will do more research tomorrow PM after the Hooters gathering. Need to go to Sams for a new battery.

 

You mean they're not the same