well I pulled the intake again and it was deffinaly leaking into all the ports(2,4,6,8,and 7)..I used that dye and you can clearly see where it was leaking at.also #7 has oil on the top of the valve again.I used a feeler gaudge but the top of the intake is flat with the heads and the lower part is .020 out.so I guess I will silicone the heck out of it and double the gaskets up and try that...does anyone have any suggestions before I go put it back together?

 

I don't like the idea of doubling up the gaskets. Who ever machined your heads screwed up. I would have the intake machined to fit.

 

I am confused. Are you saying that the head flange is warped where the intake gasket sits?

 

nope.not warpped...the heads where machined and the intake isnt going to seal right because of the angle diffrence.I tried to double the gaskets but my holes will not line up so that not a option anymore.I guess I will try to get it machined to match.

 

So, it looks like the heads were straight milled and not angle milled which has thrown off the mating surfaces. If the block was decked, that would also contribute even more to the problem.

One of the advantages in having heads angle milled is that the majority to the metal is removed from the exhaust side which allows the intake manifold to continue to seal properly. Very little is taken from the intake side of the head.

What's the gap at the chinawalls?

Of course, you can try to seal it which-ever way you choose, but, as I've said few times before, it's best to have the intake cut to correct the problem.

In the past, I've used doubled gaskets several times with complete success, it's just that it's not the preferred way of sealing the intake.

Doubled gaskets will give about .060" thickness to work with. The thicker gaskets will compress more though, so you'll have to go over the intake bolts several times until all of them maintain the torque setting. You should wait a couple of hours between each re-torquing to give the new gaskets a chance to take a set.

If for some reason doubled gaskets don't work for you, you'll be looking at pulling the intake yet again and this time to have it milled.

Be careful with any excessive use of silicone sealant too. First, you don't want any protruding into the intake ports to disrupt airflow. Second, you don't want any to somehow break off, fall into the lifter valley and ultimately gett sucked into the oil pump pickup. Use thin layers only by wiping the bead with your wetted finger.

Let me know what you decided to do.

Jake

 

Sorry, I just saw your last post that you couldn't get the right alignment with the double gaskets.

Yep, you don't have much choice now but to have the intake milled.

Jake

 

OK guys,
I got my intake milled yesterday and put it all back together today and guess what,...IT'S STILL SMOKING.......

I have had it, this dang car is a major p.i.t.a..

I dont know what else it could be but the intake..I have fresh oil in the runners,lower intake and a bit of residue in the upper.theres also fresh oil on the top of the closed valve on the #7 cylinder.I was thinking valve stem seals but I already replaced them all so that is doubtful.
I dont know what to do now..obviously its not the intake considering I have done the gaskets 4 times now and this time I used a small amount of silicone around the ports on both sides.
it realy weird though, the smoking is not consistant,I can start the car and it dont smake right away but if I leave it idle for like 10 minutes it will start smoking like crazy.then I can go drive it for like 10 minutes and the smoking will stop..but as soon as I leave it idle for a couple of minutes again it will start again.
anybody have any more ideas on wha I should do next?I am realy not trying to take this thing back out again...unfortuantly I dont know if I have any other choice..is there anything I can be over looking??any ideas will be GREATLY appreciated.
thank guys.
Al

 

Sorry to hear that. What kind of seals are you using on the guides. If they are the white teflon type, they are big pieces of Chit.

at idle or when you back off the gas, does it smoke ? If so your pulling vac thru the guides and oil with it.

 

yup, they are teflon..and yes it smokes on and off the gas..

 

with as much vacuum as you said you pull,I would say that's your problem. Get rid of those pieces of chit. Go with the new G.M seals. and your probelms are over.

 

new gm seals? arent they umbrella seals with the small rubber o-ring that goes bellow the keeper?and it pulls a steady 15 inches of vacume

 

The ones I'm talking about have a steel body and spring tension around the rubber like material. You may have had two problems, one with the intake, and the other with seals. Yes 15 inches is alot, and your probably pulling alot more on deceleration.

 

P.S when this is all over, you'll know alot more. This is how we learn.

 

well it pulls 20-23 when I let off the gas..but when I am on at wot it pulls like 5 or less.

 

seal looks something like this

Sorry I couldn't find an exact picture.

 

ya, I have rebuilt like 500 sets of heads in the last year.I worked at a auto machine shop for a while until I got my new job..I believe the seals you are talking about come on the vortech heads.they are kinda gold in color and the sides that fit around the guide are steight and they dont have a shim attached to the bottom.
I am gonna go outside and get it on video but I dont know exactly how to post it on here. can I email it to you?

 

raychingcar@yahoo.com

 

Just took a pic of one I had laying around.

 

How'd you find a machine shop to mill the intake on a Sunday? Did you stand there and watch it being done? If you did, what exactly did the machinist do?

The intake was not flat milled was it? If it was the bad angle wasn't corrected.

Did you do a trial fit of the intake after it was milled? If so, how did it fit?

Installing new seals isn't difficult, but some people mis-install them by tapping them on too far, this distorts the seal and they'll then leak.

The teflon seals AREN'T good for a street engine. Tell us exactly what you did when you installed the valve stem seals - exact procedure; part of the problem could be in the installation.

Jake

 

for the smoking..
1) It's your rings (but, I'dont think so because you have oil in the intake track...unless you are back firing)
2) It's your EGR circuit...Only other path into intake track
3) You are using heads with EGR passages, rather than using the intake's


for a good intake gaskter seal....
-place a heavy bead of black silicone on both sides of the intake gaskets and the little cork pieces on the front and back of the motor
-set the intake in gently
-torq the intake bolt to "pinkie" tightness
-wait ~30 minutes or until the intake bolts have no "tightness"...basically you want the sealant to set up a nice thick gasket layer that is conformal to the mating surfaces
-wait a little bit longer and tighten the bolts in pattern and in steps

by letting the sealant setup before you torq it down, you get a dernser and more positive seal.

w