This really isn't a personal or emotional issue. It is science. There ARE right and wrong answers. It appears that your mind is made up and you would prefer not to be bothered by facts. Like the ostrich, you stick your head in the sand and pretend the problems aren't there.

It is interesting how your rational has changed. At first, it was only, "As to the temps, I like them just where they are.", to now, where it is preparation for a future set up. If you keep thinking, you'll be able to come up with more justifications for that unnecessary cooling system expenditure.

This forum is to help others. It's clear that you are beyond help and don't want it. "There are none so blind as those that refuse to see". I've done all I can. Good luck

RACE ON!!!

 

I don't believe that the OE radiator was really designed for Phoenix summers either. I went with a 160* t-stat and main fan turning on at 180* plus cleaned the radiator. It helped but not enough. Then added a Ron Davis radiator and now I'm running too cool. Seeing as how we've had plenty of 110* days, my water temp sometimes gets up to 205, but on the freeway, it drops down to 180-190*. Fine for now, but before winter, I'm going back to a 180* t-stat and reprogram the fan to come on at 195. My gas mileage really took a nosedive.

 

Those temps are OK for now, if even still a little too cool, but like you said, the stat and fans should be changed before it cools off much. I like the fan to switch on between 205° and 215°. What was it running with the stock radiator?

RACE ON!!!

 

I would just like to add that I received my DeWitt's radiator this week, and it looks to be a real quality piece. I'm replacing my stock one because it is leaking at the seal between the end tank and the core. The plastic end tank is also starting to crack. I figured neither of these conditions would be too good for my supercharged 383, so I bought the Dewitt's one. Once I got the shroud off and saw the factory radiator, I was glad I upgraded. That thing looks like it should be in a cavalier! Dewitt's was a pleasure to deal with, and the radiator was delivered when promised. So far, so good.

Darren

 

I agree with the appearance of the stock radiator. When I first saw mine, I thought It looked like a VW rad. There is no question as to the quality and effectiveness of the DeWitts radiator. Especially with a supercharger on that 383, you may actually need the advantage if the DeWitts radiator.

As for your old rad, I have had plastic tanks replaced twice, for about $60.00 to $70.00 a pop. My car is 10 years older than yours and the factory radiator core is still cooling very well. If it weren't for your blower, you could be big bucks ahead, repairing the old rad. In this case you did the right thing and I'll bet you're happy with it.

RACE ON!!!

 

Please Advise As To The Difficulty Of The Install And You Impressions Once Installed.

Thanks

 

Actually, I need to get off the internet and go finish the install. No complaints so far about the DeWitt's radiator, but several about the car's design. I've put radiators in several cars, but this has to be the most time consuming and non-user friendly. Of course, having the supercharger and intercooler there didn't help much either. You have to remove the upper shroud, and the fan shroud. The upper shroud has 3 screws on each side bolting it to the lower shroud, down in the front, close to the frame. Very hard to get a socket in there, had to wrench some of them. There are 6 bolts holding the fan shroud to the upper and lower shrouds. The top passenger side one was a little tricky, with the Vortech supercharger intake tube RIGHT THERE, but I got a wrench in there, got it loose, and used a prybar between the shroud and the metal intake tube to get enough room for the bolt to fall out. Guess which bolt isn't going back in when I'm done (along with a couple of the previously mentioned little screws). The only concern with this specific radiator is the fan shroud had to be trimmed. I just used my cutter wheel and air compressor, and cut off where the supplied diagram showed. Be careful while doing this, as the shroud melts when cut in this fashion, and the hot chunks of plastic don't feel too good when they fly off and stick to your arm! USE SAFETY GLASSES! I also had to trim some of the upper shroud by the top trans cooler line and the a/c lines on the passenger side, to make it easier to get it back in. I'll keep you posted on the new temps, once up and running.

 

CFI-EFI,
I don't get the forum users that have this pre-occupation with cooler(then specs) temps. I know that an engine running at 160 (degrees)may be alittle more chipper then 220 but I value my engine more then being a alittle bit faster. My car has 140,000 plus miles on it and it's basically bone stock with a few bolt-ons. I want to be able to drive my car in any weather and not have to worry about the damage I'm doing to the engine because it's not getting up to operating temp. I think in the long run the people who follow the engineers will get more life out of their engines. Now, if your a pure track racer then I say do whatever you want. If your somewhere in between then I think it's better to error towards the engineers and science. Thanks, Jzvette

 

Well put!

When I'm racing I like to leave the starting line with the engine between 160° and 170°. But I would hate to drive down the road at those temps. Very few of the cars that get excessively cool thermostats will run for long at those low temps. All the excessively low temp thermostat does is prolong the warm up... Sometimes for longer than the engine is going to run, or at least not long enough to purge the contaminants. Not enough people take the time to think it through, and just blindly follow (baaah) a misdirected crowd.

RACE ON!!!

 

 

[QUOTE=CFI-EFI]All the excessively low temp thermostat does is prolong the warm upRACE ON!!![/QUOTE

NOT REALLY TRUE..........on my LT4 with 160 stat and Hypertech's "OLD" programming my car would warm up rapidly to an indicated 169........in over 25K miles with this setup the temp never exceeded 176 degrees in even the worst temp conditions......95% of time it ran at an indicated 172/173......

With new programming it now often runs a little warmer, since the fans are programmed a little differently....



BTW in my opinion with synthetic oil and running in closed loop where A/F is controlled you won't get any sludging or reduced engine life with engine temps in the 170's....just an opinion mind you..

 

LT4BUD,
CFI-EFI knows what he's talking about, you seem to have alot of OPINIONS. And you know what they say about those. We're talking about what the engineers say you should do. I'm sure your chiped cool running car has alot of spunk but I'd like to see it make it as far as my 140K mile car or CFI-EFI's 160K car. The facts are that all the people who designed and tested our cars say that you need to get the car to operating temp quickly and regularly to burn off all the moisture that can damage your engine. If your all or only about racing then good luck and I hope your best friends a tech. And all the techs I know agree with CFI-EFI and the engineers, and guess why??? Because they have taken the money of their fair share of people who believe the same as you. The techs tell me to keep my mouth shut so they can make more money off of people like you. In the words of CFI-EFI RACE ON jzvette

 

Geez!!!!!!!!

It is a FACT my car ran at 172 degrees as a result of both a 160 thermostat and fan control, which probably caused the fans to run nearly 100% of the time...not good......It is still my OPINION that as long as you go closed loop the car will run clean and get good MPG without sludging, the consistant viscosity of synthetic oil will give good lube at 170's......

The car WILL warm up quickly up to the thermostat rating.....

Plus for me personally I rarely if ever take my car out on very short trips, the car is in a climate controlled garage, so moisture/condensation issues are minimal at worst

What CFI-EFI is saying, I think, is that in many cases, even with a 160 stat, the temps will continue to climb slowly up to 190 or more.....my disagreement with that is that with fan control the temps will hold lower, at least it is a FACT that it did with my car.....

BTW, I never intended to slam CFI-EFI........I clearly stated what I believe is FACT, my experience, and what was my OPINION..........

 

I just traded in a minivan with 108K miles...still mint

I sold my previous vehicle with 228k miles on it......a GMC van.....still A1

I raced my 67 Dodge with 182K miles on it....160 stat

Currently running a 91 Toyota pickup truck with 143K miles on it....

Vette now has 35k.......mostly highway miles......not a track car....

Time will tell how far it will go......I am sure the internals are really stressed by the mods.......but it still does 25mpg or so highway......

 

I agree with most of that. All except the fuel mileage. "Good MPG" maybe, but not the best. The fans running constantly is not good, either. A constant 170° is still too cool. After all, with the water at 170°, what will the oil temp be? I agree that a constant 170°, in closed loop, will probably not have a problem with contaminant build up. The problem with that theory, is most people shut their engines off, and don't maintain a constant 170°.


The car will warm up to the "thermostat rating" at the same rate regardless of the opening point of the thermostat. The problem is with the warm up rate at temperatures between the opening of the too cool stat vs. that of a proper stat. I think that your climate controlled garage is of minimal advantage. Much more important is the fact that you rarely take short drives. It take time and temperature to purge the contaminants from the oil pan. The less you have of one, the more you will need of the other. Remember, the worse thing you can do to your engine is...start it.


What you think I was saying is correct. But better they climb to a proper temperature, too slowly, than not at all. Most C4s will not sit still and idle at 160° to 170° for very long. I'm surprised if yours will, with a stock radiator, but you're there...I'm not.

RACE ON!!!

 

With stock radiator it would run 135*+ with outside temp. under 107*. If it was over 107*, I wouldn't drive it. A lot of people in the desert would love to have my 'running too cool problem'. Anyway, I've already made arrangements to replace with a 180* t-stat and have a new chip burned that will turn the fan on at 195*. My main concerns are the low gas mileage and emissions. I have a question for you. As long as the oil temps are warm enough (mine are 205-215), does it really matter if the coolant temps are low?

 

+ WHAT? About 100??? If there isn't a typo there, I don't believe it. Or else there is more to the story.

Of course the two are interdependent. The water temp influiences the cylinder wear, and of course the ECM uses the water temp as criteria go to closed loop. With adaquate oil temps, I'd be less concerned with the water temps, except as related to a slow warm up. Your oil temps aren't bad, but warmer would be better.

RACE ON!!!

 

It was a typo. 235*. Thanks

 

NO! Thank YOU! I figured it HAD to be.

RACE ON!!!

 

Now That It Has Been A Couple Of Weeks Since Your Install, What Are Yout Opinions? Did It Bring The Temps Down?