spool em
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
spool em
I was thinking, we know that a turbine gets its power from a pressure differential. We know that thermal expansion (keepin 'er hot) can help create a greater expansion and therefore delta across the turbine.
My thoughts were this, If I dischage say, Co2 or better liquid nitrogen annularly into the discharge of the turbine, creating a 500 deg or more temperature drop after the turbine I beleive the gas compression due to cooling would effect a greater delta across the turbine. Spooling up faster.
So long as the amount of coolant being injected into the downside of the turbine was insiginficant compared to total exhaust flow for your pipe size (if you have one in case of drag) so as to not impede exhaust flow.
As soon as desired boost is achieved within the rpm/TPS window flow is turned off.
Has anyone tried this?
A nice inert way to spool up earlier?
Whatchu guys think? Brainfart or sound bedtime logic?
My thoughts were this, If I dischage say, Co2 or better liquid nitrogen annularly into the discharge of the turbine, creating a 500 deg or more temperature drop after the turbine I beleive the gas compression due to cooling would effect a greater delta across the turbine. Spooling up faster.
So long as the amount of coolant being injected into the downside of the turbine was insiginficant compared to total exhaust flow for your pipe size (if you have one in case of drag) so as to not impede exhaust flow.
As soon as desired boost is achieved within the rpm/TPS window flow is turned off.
Has anyone tried this?
A nice inert way to spool up earlier?
Whatchu guys think? Brainfart or sound bedtime logic?
Last edited by Baldturbofreak; Nov 27, 2005 at 11:35 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,830
Likes: 1
From: atlanta Georgia
intresting. how and where would you inject this with out it leaking. because uve now created a possible hole in the manifold or turbine housing.... or am i off in the deep end.
i think it sounds kool but thats more $ to an alreday expensive project for most. Sean is goning to hit santa up for all hes worth this year.
i think it sounds kool but thats more $ to an alreday expensive project for most. Sean is goning to hit santa up for all hes worth this year.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,153
Likes: 114
i think i heard about some drag guys spraying CO2 on to the turbine to spin the thing up!!!
id personaly stick with an anti-lag system! if you are only running it for a little while its not going to screew the turbo and it wont run out!!!
...and it sounds ace
thanks Chris.
id personaly stick with an anti-lag system! if you are only running it for a little while its not going to screew the turbo and it wont run out!!!
...and it sounds ace
thanks Chris.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
I ve seen anti lag on subies. Thats alotta raw fuel going thru the motor. Not great for rings/guides etc.
The idea is that Im making it real cold downside of the turbine in the exhaust pipe. The opposite of keeping it very hot upside of the turbo.
Absolutely nothing goes thru the actual motor so it is inert (doesn't harm/effect the engine at all)
Chris,
Do they inject Co2 into the inlet or discharge of the turbine? I guess you could just dircetly injects a large amount of co2 into the inlet of the turbine to speed it up as well.
The idea is that Im making it real cold downside of the turbine in the exhaust pipe. The opposite of keeping it very hot upside of the turbo.
Absolutely nothing goes thru the actual motor so it is inert (doesn't harm/effect the engine at all)
Chris,
Do they inject Co2 into the inlet or discharge of the turbine? I guess you could just dircetly injects a large amount of co2 into the inlet of the turbine to speed it up as well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,147
Likes: 302
From: Timra, Sweden
The temperature difference over the turbine comes from the pressure drop, same thing as the temperature increase over the compressor.
With atmospheric pressure in the downpipe (optimal) and a fixed mass flow you get a higher pressure before the turbine if the exhaust gasses are hotter.
I doubt that lowering the temerature after the turbine would do you much good. You will not get below atmospheric pressure. The benefit you might get would be less exhaust volume so the exhaust is less of a restriction, but the pressure in the downpipe should be minimal before the turbo starts to spool.
With atmospheric pressure in the downpipe (optimal) and a fixed mass flow you get a higher pressure before the turbine if the exhaust gasses are hotter.
I doubt that lowering the temerature after the turbine would do you much good. You will not get below atmospheric pressure. The benefit you might get would be less exhaust volume so the exhaust is less of a restriction, but the pressure in the downpipe should be minimal before the turbo starts to spool.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,872
Likes: 3
From: Wilmington NC
BTF.. just a thought, but find yourself a High Pressure Direct Injection fuel injector from a new two stroke outboard motor.. they require a low pressure volume pump to supply the injector with fuel but have built in ultra high pressure pumps designed to inject fuel on the compression stroke of an outboard motor at upwards of 900PSI.. add a high temp inconel jet for some nitrous and run soem tests of the correct jetting pulsewidth for the injector.. you can inject fuel and nitrous in pre trubine and light it off with a spark plug.. this way no extra fuel through your engine, and you can spool a huge turbo almost instantly and I bet it would make for some really neat flames out the rear. this would essentially be similar to a jet afterburner which is a proven method of burning raw fuel post axial turbine to creat ungodly thrust. a small burst for spool up would kick the engine boost way high though and you would need to find a way to regualt exatcly how much fuel nitrous you were adding in the up-pipe.
Chris
Chris
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,293
Likes: 79
From: Jackson MI
How about a switch that cuts the ignition to half of the cylenders. Then you need to open the throttle plates more to keep the engine moving and then you are still pumping unburned fuel into the exhaust where it should be ignited by the other exhaust flames. I would think that should take care of all the spoolage that you'd ever need.
But that doesn't work very well if you're doing this from a roll, but you should be able to brake boost for that, unless you really need that instant spool and have it automated somehow so you didn't have to take time to hit a switch.
But that doesn't work very well if you're doing this from a roll, but you should be able to brake boost for that, unless you really need that instant spool and have it automated somehow so you didn't have to take time to hit a switch.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,153
Likes: 114
Chris, thats one F*CK OFF BANG BANG anti-lag system mate!!!!! hehe i like it!
might distroy the trubo thoguh!
BTF from what i gathered they spray the CO2 onto the exhaust turbine blade. i think they may even have used liquid nitrogen as it will exspand even more!!!
i dont like the idea of spraying a sub zero degrees liqud onto red hot steel! i think it qould lead to a few creaked headers....or even worse turbos!!!
thanks Chris.
PS. BTF f/ck all this and stick a supercharger on it as well as the turbo!!! go on you know you want to!!
might distroy the trubo thoguh!
BTF from what i gathered they spray the CO2 onto the exhaust turbine blade. i think they may even have used liquid nitrogen as it will exspand even more!!!
i dont like the idea of spraying a sub zero degrees liqud onto red hot steel! i think it qould lead to a few creaked headers....or even worse turbos!!!
thanks Chris.
PS. BTF f/ck all this and stick a supercharger on it as well as the turbo!!!
go on you know you want to!!
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
Chris,
STOP ENCOURAGING ME! lol.
Lightening blowers are so cheap and I totally have the drive already worked out..
Oh and check this out, bruce lent me the tool to take my (original) opti apart and ack! corrosion! Since Im going coil on plug, but keeping the stock ecm in the car for serial link communication, I need an opti delete.
My dad is turning me a piece of aluminum to serve as a weatehr proof cover that gets rid of the cap and rotor, and provides a solid mount for an hilborn or Kinsler injection pump. Im all done with electrics.
STOP ENCOURAGING ME! lol.
Lightening blowers are so cheap and I totally have the drive already worked out..
Oh and check this out, bruce lent me the tool to take my (original) opti apart and ack! corrosion! Since Im going coil on plug, but keeping the stock ecm in the car for serial link communication, I need an opti delete.
My dad is turning me a piece of aluminum to serve as a weatehr proof cover that gets rid of the cap and rotor, and provides a solid mount for an hilborn or Kinsler injection pump. Im all done with electrics.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,637
Likes: 2
From: Honeoye Ny
If Im not mistaken they are 112 cu in/rev. I only need 3-5 psi from one. Should be pretty easy to get from one. I would assume you could get 8-10 psi from one before you hit max blower rpm. For a blower only app Id want a bigger "huffer" unless the motor was dead stock.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,837
Likes: 289
From: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
We had a 1,000hp twin turbo Testarossa in the shop I used to work at running anti-lag. The original manifold is now a decoration on the owners fireplace mantel. 
