Hey guys,

First off, I'm new to this board and plan on acquiring a 1986 c4. A big thanks goes out to all those who take their own time to post and help out. Without you guys, i'm not sure if the world would still go round

I've spent days and days reading posts in the tech section (until about page 32!!)Figuring out the best way to boost performance and be able to finely tune the engine myself. I plan on rebuilding the l98 with a forged bottom end (probably an Eagle rotating assembly kit), Aggressive cam with alot of lift, AFR 195cc heads and the Accel-Lingenfelter Superram. Of course, true duals with hooker LT headers, no cats, and a borlas pumping in the rear.

My power goals are to achieve at least 400hp at the wheels and more torque to boot with a higher redline up to about 6200-6500 RPM. (Any suggestions are welcomed as to how to better achieve that). I'd like to stay with the stock block rather than swapping a crate or ls1, so I could build it like a tank with alot of power.

Finally, here is my question. On the lingenfelter site (http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/77131.html), they sell a complete kit with runners, plenum, intake manifold, 58mm TB...but include this new ECU with software that apparently is one of the easier ones to program using a laptop (no pulling a chip, just plug and play). It was featured in chevyhiperformace magazine (http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/56858/) but I haven't been able to find any reviews or posts of people that have used this setup.

The kit is $4k but I could get the runners, plenum, and intake manifold from Jegs for about $1200. I will pay more for the extra convienince in not having to mess with different software and/or remove the prom but is it necessary for an extra $2800?? As an FYI, I have a career in IT so I learn computers quick, but don't have any previous experience in reprogramming PROMs, so an easier setup will be extremely benefitial.

Thanks for taking a look at the post and look forward to becoming a part of the best group on the net!!

 

Tuning with the DFI is not exactly as simple as you might think, and even more difficult is the wiring / installation of it into an early C4. It'll have to piggy back on your existing ecm for TC lockup control, and computer functions. If you plan to have it installed and tuned, plan to spend another 2K+ on it... Buddy of mine did that.

Since you are planning to rebuild anyways, I'd s[end for a ZZ4 shortblock, and put on a full superram upper/lower intake. Get it tuned with the stock ecm, get a good exhaust, and you should be at 400chp easy..

 

Great idea...with the money i'll save by using the stock ecu...i'll pick up the zz4 block.. thanks Nuke

 

He wants 400 at the wheels. He ain't goin get that with a 350 SR motor.

 

True...i was actually looking more towards the ZZ383 block with 425hp and 460 torque...with the superram and LT/no cats i think it's doable..

Maybe i should've posted in the tech section

 

Yes, its doable. All you need is the correct base manifold to match the heads. The ZZ383/425 has the fast burn heads which requires the Vortec style manifold. Edelbrock makes this manifold now, as well as Scoggin Dickey. Actually Edelbrock always made the manifold but SD contracted them to build it for them, but the contract has since ended and Edelbrock now markets it as well.

 

You could also reallocate the SR money (not to mention the blood,
sweat and tears it sometimes elicits) toward a combination of a Holley
Stealth Ram and either a hood scoop or an entire hood to provide
the requisite clearance.

If you can live with the change in body style and can do without the
EGR, I think a case can be made for the HSR. It is considerably less
expensive, much easier to configure and maintain, less likely to leak,
capable of more upper end with not much loss lower down in exchange...
The list goes on.

A thread about the Greenwood/Mold Kraft scoops and the Toledo Pro
/Melrose hoods for more info about their products and people's
experiences. A second thread with more pictures of the hoods.

.

 

...i think you may have sold me on the HSR...I am looking for stronger high-end performance, but i guess saying Lingenfelter has acertain ring to it

I took a glimpse at the complete kit (pn# 91404201) and looks like a great choice for the zz383 with no EGR...my only concern is fitting the ECU and wiring harness in there and programming when it's all done.

Anyone know if this system adapts to the stock ECU (1986) or do I loose the stock ECU and this is a complete replacement?

Thanks alot for everybody's input!!

 

Your stock EFI harness would plug directly into the new HSR injectors which are just plain old GM Multec injectors. The harness should also just plug directly into the TPS and other sensors as well. If I were you I would just get a good chip tuner on a dyno and burn a custom chip for your stock ECM to work with the HSR.

 

** ---------------------- READ THIS ---------------------- **

A stock Holley Stealth Ram does NOT fit under a stock C4 hood.
The options are to add a scoop, change the hood or lower the HSR

** -------------------------------------------------------- **

You don't want the 91404201.

That kit is for converting non-EFI cars. It is NOT
complete and it is not clear from the information
whether it would work with the Vortec heads on a
ZZ383.

Blame Holley for an unhelpful website - it is nearly
impossible to find the Stealth manifold there. Hint
- look in the PDF version of the Holley catalog. Still
doesn't list the polished or Vortec versions.

Instead of that package, L98 TPI 5.7L owners can look
at the necessary components: 1) manifold, 2) rails
3) throttle body, 4) small distributer, 5) fittings.

Mix and match from the following list (incomplete?)
** ========================= **
Conventional (non-Vortec)
HLY-7540 $299.95 Holley Intake Manifold, Stealth Ram EFI, Aluminum, Natural, Multi-port, Chevy/GMC, SBC
HLY-7540P $549.95 Holley Intake Manifold, Stealth Ram EFI, Aluminum, Polished, Multi-port, Chevy/GMC, SBC
FPP-1205 $13.88 Felpro 1205, Printoseal, 2.09 in. x 1.28 in. Port, .060 in.


Vortec (check intake availability first)
WND-7542 $349.95 Weiand Vortec EFI Stealth Ram Intake Manifolds, Natural
WND-7542P $699.95 Weiand Vortec EFI Stealth Ram Intake Manifolds, Polished
FPP-1255 $19.88 Fel Pro 1255 Fits Vortec Heads, Composite, 2.110 in. x 1.08 in. Port, .120 in.


Bolt Kit for late heads
HLY-90748 $62.39 Holley Intake Manifold Adapter kit, Spacer, Bolts, Washers, the 1987-up design SBC
CAUTION - by my calculations, the wedges work out to $15.00 EACH
Make your own. They are 5/8"W x 1"L. One end is 1/2"T and the other
is 5/32"T. The 25/64"ID hole is 5/16" o/c from the low side and parallel
with the sides.


Fuel Rails (non-Vortec)
HLY-534-185 $175.95 Fuel Rail, Aluminum, Clear Anodized, Universal, with Non-Adjustable Regulator,
HLY-534-186 $219.95 Fuel Rail, Aluminum, Clear Anodized, Universal, with Adjustable Regulator,

Fuel Rails (Vortec)
HLY-534-192 $175.95 Fuel Rail, Aluminum, Clear Anodized, Universal, with Non-Adjustable Regulator,
HLY-534-193 $219.95 Fuel Rail, Aluminum, Clear Anodized, Universal, with Adjustable Regulator,

Throttle Bodies: Link to pictures of OEM TB's

Throttle Body Choices:
LT1 Throttle Body (stk TPI has been made to work by bending linkage and grinding rails)
** --- Corvette & F-Body Versions (92-93) --- **
HLY-112-504 $349.95 Holley Twin 52mm throttle body
- OR -
HLY-112-505 $349.95 Holley Twin 58mm throttle body
** --- F-Body Versions (94-97) --- ** (I do not know why Holley excludes Corvette when listing the applications)
HLY-112-508 $349.95 Holley Twin 52mm throttle body
- OR -
HLY-112-509 $349.95 Holley Twin 58mm throttle body

TPI Throttle Body (Included only to suggest what you might NOT want if buying new)
** --- F-Body Versions (85-88 TPI) --- **
HLY-112-502 $349.95 Holley Twin 52mm throttle body
- OR -
HLY-112-503 $349.95 Holley Twin 58mm throttle body
** --- F-Body Versions (89-92 TPI) --- **
HLY-112-506 $349.95 Holley Twin 52mm throttle body
- OR -
HLY-112-507 $349.95 Holley Twin 58mm throttle body

TPS Sensor: Not included (purchase separately)
IAC Motor: Not included (purchase separately)

GM IAC & TPS p/n's ('95 LT1)
#17113188 Valve Kit (Multiport Fuel Injection Idler Air Hardware )
(LIST: $116.58) OUR PRICE: $58.29

#17113077 Sensor Kit (Multiport Fuel Injection Throttle Position Hardware)
(LIST: $87.21) OUR PRICE: $43.60


Fuel Line adapters needed for the stock hard lines
1 pc - EAR-9894DBHERL $8.39 Earls Fitting, Power Fuel Injection Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 14mm x 1.5 Female
1 pc - EAR-9894DBJERL $8.39 Earls Fitting, Power Fuel Injection Adapter, -6 AN Hose End to 16mm x 1.5 Female
4 pc - SUM-220690 Summit Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Red/Blue,
10' of -6 AN Braided hose (feed/return lines between fuel rails and OEM)

-Two 1/4" x 1/8"NPT straight barb fittings (rear of intake, MAP sensor and other items)
-One 3/8" x 3/8" NPT straight barb fitting (rear of intake other vacuum items)
-One 3/8" x 3/8" NPT 90 deg. barb (goes under plenum, used for brake booster)
- 2 feet 1/4" vacuum hose
- 2 feet 3/8" vacuum hose
- (3) 1/4" vacuum plugs for EGR solenoid and throttle body
- (1) large clamp

Schrader Valve: Fuel Rail
Caution
This refers to the seal at the base of the removable valve core. Viton
is the material that is compatible for fuel use, the others will degrade
with exposure to fuel. Different additives will affect neoprene and
nitrile in different ways and at different rates. While some here use
non-Viton, it is not recommended.

Schrader Valve: Grainger Item # 3GC99
Union Flare Connection Valve, Connection Type 1/8 Inch MPT, Package 6

Schrader Valve: Fuel Rail adapter for Guage (ie: Hypertech)
Use a straight -4AN to 1/8" NPT adapter, Aeroquip part # AER-FCM2001.(renamed AER-FBM2001 )

Distributor: F-Body Style (Small-cap, Remote Coil):
MSD #8366: Pro Billet Distributor
MSD #8226: External coil
Accel # 74170: F-BODY CONVERSION KIT (harness adapts HEI to ext coil dist)
Or contact Jim's Performance for a harness set. Custom sets available.
Also take a look at Casper's

(Alternatively, get the dist/coil from an F-body and build your own
harness adapter from used connectors picked up an auto wrecker or
new ones. Here is a recent thread that lists several sources for
connectors: Looking for sensor connectors )


Thermostat Housing & Rad Hose:
The MiniRam II thermostat housing available from TPiS works (see post further down)
Housing from 88 - 92 gm serpentine vehicle or TBI thermostat housing are reported to work
(The housing from a mid-80's f-body (p/n 14084383) does NOT work - see post further down)
(mr. gasket p/n 2661 Thermostat housing works but is reported to be
poor quality and prone to leaking)

Dayco p/n #71028 (85 Camaro Carbureted upper radiator hose)

Hood and Scoop Choices:
Toledo Pro Hood (2.75" rise)
Toledo Pro Hood (4.00" rise)
Greenwood Scoop
Mold Kraft Scoop
Harwood Scoop

** ========================= **

The appropriate manifold and supporting parts from
the list will get you going. There are several on-line
resources that will help you with any of the little things
I've overlooked.

Then you'll need to lay a tune on it to get it running
to optimum.

Do the math. Compare it to the Super Ram. Either
way requires a significant outlay before you can say
you are done.

Here are some links

Ram That TPI! Part II

Holley Stealthram - Is it legal? What's it cost? Where do I buy it? etc etc

www.stealthram.com

MSD Billet help! 85551 or 8366

L98 MSD Distributor Part #?

Holley Stealth Ram Installation Notes (Jerod M.)

** ---------------------- READ THIS ---------------------- **

A stock Holley Stealth Ram does NOT fit under a stock C4 hood.
The options are to add a scoop, change the hood or lower the HSR

** -------------------------------------------------------- **


.

 

Wow!!
Honestly guys, I'm almost falling out of my chair with appreciarion for all the helpful advice. This is definately enough info to get the vette up and running. I really can't thank you guys enough!! God bless this forum!!

 

Those prices are from Summit - it is easy to draw sample info from their
site for a list. But you should support Forum sponsers wherever possible.

Strip off the 3-char prefixes on the p/n's and these will tell anyone
in the business which parts you are looking for.

Google for Thunder Racing to comparison shop on p & d. Also, member
tjwong has been a big help with parts and info many times for many
CF members. He could be a resource no matter which manifold you
settle on.

.

 

WOW Great info!!!

 

Yes. The credit for the research belongs to others. I've just tried to
put a bit of their information together in one spot in case there are
other C4 folks who don't mind raising the hood or dropping the plenum
to fit an HSR.

.

 

Slalom4me,
What do you mean by "dropping the plenum"? Thanks,

Rich K

 

I'll let JoBy explain
.

 

Slalom4me, That is an awesome job of organizing all the info/part list into one place

 

Thanks.

Anyone notice any additions, changes or deletions that should
be made?

.

 

Looks like you got it all covered. And then some!

 

Well, not quite.

One poorly addressed item on the list is a quality thermostat housing.

Here is what the t-stat flange looks like on a HSR (for conventional
23º heads)





In my post above, it says that a housing from a serpentine-belt vehicle
will work. Well, the one above won't - it is the housing from a mid-80's
f-body (p/n 14084383) and it is clocked about 90º from where it needs
to be for the HSR. A visual comparison against some photos of my '89
L98 lead me to think this is the same part.

...