Need help te get those bastards in jail
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
I agree, there is no doubt of the year of the actual vehicle. My '84 had no option list under either hatch lid or the console lid when I got my car at about 2 years old. My 1968 had the build sheet glued to the top of the gas tank. I have seen diagrams showing the C4 build sheet glued to the front (not the rear) of the gas tank. I haven't looked for mine. Stampings on the differential carrier housing and the transmission plate may give clues or partials on the VIN. My 1984 VIN is, "1G1AY0783E51XXXXX". The true VIN for your vehicle should be the same, except possibly for the "3" just before the "E". The "3" is a "check digit", which probably has to match up with some other item, to verify the legitimacy of the number. The "X"s of course are the sequential serial number. Also, on the rear of the left door, below the belt line, there is a tag, that among other things gives the build date. I don't remember what all is on that tag. I had never noticed it before I was told to look there for the date of manufacture. Maybe something on that tag, if it endured, will be helpful.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
I agree, there is no doubt of the year of the actual vehicle. My '84 had no option list under either hatch lid or the console lid when I got my car at about 2 years old. My 1968 had the build sheet glued to the top of the gas tank. I have seen diagrams showing the C4 build sheet glued to the front (not the rear) of the gas tank. I haven't looked for mine. Stampings on the differential carrier housing and the transmission plate may give clues or partials on the VIN. My 1984 VIN is, "1G1AY0783E51XXXXX". The true VIN for your vehicle should be the same, except possibly for the "3" just before the "E". The "3" is a "check digit", which probably has to match up with some other item, to verify the legitimacy of the number. The "X"s of course are the sequential serial number. Also, on the rear of the left door, below the belt line, there is a tag, that among other things gives the build date. I don't remember what all is on that tag. I had never noticed it before I was told to look there for the date of manufacture. Maybe something on that tag, if it endured, will be helpful.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Thanks for the info
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,374
Likes: 2,289
From: Central Maryland
Nico, are you sure you really want to own this car?
I don't know about the laws in Spain, but here in the USA, I would want absolutely NO part of owning a motor vehicle that had ANY clouds on its title/VIN. The possibilities for trouble associated with that here in the USA are immense and scary.
It's a felony to tamper with a VIN over here. I wouldn't want to have to worry about proving ownership, proving the car wasn't stolen, proving I had nothing to do with the mismatch of the VIN, etc.
And I don't even want to think about the trouble you might encounter when you eventually decide to sell the car.
It seems to me that you're in a very good position to force the seller to refund all of your money, plus additional compensation for the work you have had done to the car so far, and possibly some additional cash to compensate you for all of the trouble and to make you go away happy (and quiet).
Are you sure you don't want to get out from under this mess before it goes any further than it already has?
I would "run, don't walk" away from this whole deal, if I were in your position.
In any case, best of luck with it, and please let us know how it all turns out. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious to hear how this story ends.
Be well,
SJW
I don't know about the laws in Spain, but here in the USA, I would want absolutely NO part of owning a motor vehicle that had ANY clouds on its title/VIN. The possibilities for trouble associated with that here in the USA are immense and scary.
It's a felony to tamper with a VIN over here. I wouldn't want to have to worry about proving ownership, proving the car wasn't stolen, proving I had nothing to do with the mismatch of the VIN, etc.
And I don't even want to think about the trouble you might encounter when you eventually decide to sell the car.
It seems to me that you're in a very good position to force the seller to refund all of your money, plus additional compensation for the work you have had done to the car so far, and possibly some additional cash to compensate you for all of the trouble and to make you go away happy (and quiet).
Are you sure you don't want to get out from under this mess before it goes any further than it already has?
I would "run, don't walk" away from this whole deal, if I were in your position.
In any case, best of luck with it, and please let us know how it all turns out. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious to hear how this story ends.
Be well,
SJW
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
The tag on the gas tank is usually on the top of the tank, so to see it, the tank must be removed which is big job because most of the rear suspension must be removed. Well worth it though if it puts some scum in jail where they belong.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
From: La Grande Oregon
I don't know if this will help or not but you can find the original vins and the options that came with that vin at www.idavette.net, best of luck,...joe
Last edited by bluealtered; Dec 7, 2005 at 04:02 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by SJW
Nico, are you sure you really want to own this car?
I don't know about the laws in Spain, but here in the USA, I would want absolutely NO part of owning a motor vehicle that had ANY clouds on its title/VIN. The possibilities for trouble associated with that here in the USA are immense and scary.
It's a felony to tamper with a VIN over here. I wouldn't want to have to worry about proving ownership, proving the car wasn't stolen, proving I had nothing to do with the mismatch of the VIN, etc.
And I don't even want to think about the trouble you might encounter when you eventually decide to sell the car.
It seems to me that you're in a very good position to force the seller to refund all of your money, plus additional compensation for the work you have had done to the car so far, and possibly some additional cash to compensate you for all of the trouble and to make you go away happy (and quiet).
Are you sure you don't want to get out from under this mess before it goes any further than it already has?
I would "run, don't walk" away from this whole deal, if I were in your position.
In any case, best of luck with it, and please let us know how it all turns out. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious to hear how this story ends.
Be well,
SJW
I don't know about the laws in Spain, but here in the USA, I would want absolutely NO part of owning a motor vehicle that had ANY clouds on its title/VIN. The possibilities for trouble associated with that here in the USA are immense and scary.
It's a felony to tamper with a VIN over here. I wouldn't want to have to worry about proving ownership, proving the car wasn't stolen, proving I had nothing to do with the mismatch of the VIN, etc.
And I don't even want to think about the trouble you might encounter when you eventually decide to sell the car.
It seems to me that you're in a very good position to force the seller to refund all of your money, plus additional compensation for the work you have had done to the car so far, and possibly some additional cash to compensate you for all of the trouble and to make you go away happy (and quiet).
Are you sure you don't want to get out from under this mess before it goes any further than it already has?
I would "run, don't walk" away from this whole deal, if I were in your position.
In any case, best of luck with it, and please let us know how it all turns out. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's curious to hear how this story ends.
Be well,
SJW
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,699
Likes: 2
From: The Black Hole LA
Sucks that you are going through this. I have seen pictures of the build sheet on both the front and the top of the gas tank. On both C4's I've had 86 and 90 I had the rear bumper off and didn't see a build sheet so I assume on mine it was in the front.
One thing I don't understand though. You say the vin that is 'Stamped' into the frame rail is an '87 vin. This would mean to me that they took all the '84 guts and stuck them onto an '87 frame because you just don't restamp a number onto a steal frame over other numbers, unless of course the number is on some sort of plate welded to the frame, which would make a little more sense. if it is infact a different frame this would also explain the windshield vin and most probably if this is the case the build sheet will be '87 as well. Possible reasons for this is a bad wreck with severe frame damage. There was a guy on here, though I forget his name, that did this.
Best of luck to you.
One thing I don't understand though. You say the vin that is 'Stamped' into the frame rail is an '87 vin. This would mean to me that they took all the '84 guts and stuck them onto an '87 frame because you just don't restamp a number onto a steal frame over other numbers, unless of course the number is on some sort of plate welded to the frame, which would make a little more sense. if it is infact a different frame this would also explain the windshield vin and most probably if this is the case the build sheet will be '87 as well. Possible reasons for this is a bad wreck with severe frame damage. There was a guy on here, though I forget his name, that did this.
Best of luck to you.
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Isn't there a second build sheet tucked away somewhere in the front frame rail?
On my '95, the build sheet is curled up and tucked under the strap that holds the tank in place, on top of the tank.
On my '95, the build sheet is curled up and tucked under the strap that holds the tank in place, on top of the tank.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,374
Likes: 2,289
From: Central Maryland
Originally Posted by Nico
To get my money back is for sure an option that Is the most feasable. But also therfore I need a carfax report in order to prove that it is a fraude. That will show that they really took the papers from an other car. I tried to find somone to run a carfax for me (that is not possible from a location other that the USA or Canada), did ask at the FOR SALE forum. No reactons yet. Upto now it is still possible that the original owner show up, but I doubt that. If he shows up, he has to answer a lot of questions and put these answers on paper. If not, I will sue them and I have to enter a long process (may be more than 3 years) to get my money back. Probably I only get the money back I payed and not all the other costs like painting, repairing, new leather chars, weather stipping etc. But than there is no option and I always loose. But they go probably to jail wich helps to heal the wounds.
Do any law enforcement agencies, customs, etc in Spain have any authority to pursue this on your behalf?
I sure hope you can get out from under this quickly, cleanly and with all of your money returned.
Be well,
SJW
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by hz900
Sucks that you are going through this. I have seen pictures of the build sheet on both the front and the top of the gas tank. On both C4's I've had 86 and 90 I had the rear bumper off and didn't see a build sheet so I assume on mine it was in the front.
One thing I don't understand though. You say the vin that is 'Stamped' into the frame rail is an '87 vin. This would mean to me that they took all the '84 guts and stuck them onto an '87 frame because you just don't restamp a number onto a steal frame over other numbers, unless of course the number is on some sort of plate welded to the frame, which would make a little more sense. if it is infact a different frame this would also explain the windshield vin and most probably if this is the case the build sheet will be '87 as well. Possible reasons for this is a bad wreck with severe frame damage. There was a guy on here, though I forget his name, that did this.
Best of luck to you.
One thing I don't understand though. You say the vin that is 'Stamped' into the frame rail is an '87 vin. This would mean to me that they took all the '84 guts and stuck them onto an '87 frame because you just don't restamp a number onto a steal frame over other numbers, unless of course the number is on some sort of plate welded to the frame, which would make a little more sense. if it is infact a different frame this would also explain the windshield vin and most probably if this is the case the build sheet will be '87 as well. Possible reasons for this is a bad wreck with severe frame damage. There was a guy on here, though I forget his name, that did this.
Best of luck to you.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by bluealtered
If they went so far as to swap everything over from the 84, they may have gotten the sheet off the tank as well, hope not,....luck ...joe
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
Last 8 digits of the VIN is also engraved on the manual transmission, if you have that. But they probably got to that too.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,518
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Nearly every piece of framework has a vin stamped in it. I was told it is stamped in over 15 locations. Every time I see wrecked, disassembled vette's, I see it on frame pieces. The trans tailshaft also normally has the vin stamped. Just another easy place to check when you are under there. The removable top contains a vin under the weatherstripping as well.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Big Rapids Michigan
[QUOTE=Mr Mojo]Isn't there a second build sheet tucked away somewhere in the front frame rail?
On both my 86 and an 87 that I owned there was a second build sheet in the drivers side front frame rail. They were both rolled or crumpled up but when removed were very legible. As I remember, they weren't exactly easy to extract however it was less work than getting the ones off the gas tanks.
In this particular case it would be worth taking a look. Whoever counterfeited the car may have overlooked this.
On both my 86 and an 87 that I owned there was a second build sheet in the drivers side front frame rail. They were both rolled or crumpled up but when removed were very legible. As I remember, they weren't exactly easy to extract however it was less work than getting the ones off the gas tanks.
In this particular case it would be worth taking a look. Whoever counterfeited the car may have overlooked this.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
Originally Posted by bluealtered
I don't know if this will help or not but you can find the original vins and the options that came with that vin at www.idavette.net, best of luck,...joe
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
From: 1984 crossfire, Alhaurin de la Torre Malaga, Spain
[QUOTE=Shadow1]
I really like to look, but I can not find a member with that name in the book. Please explain in more detail where to look. I see the outer frontside member going to the front where half way the front cross member connects the sides and the side member end in the front crossmember tie bar. Further to the back I see two U shaped front crossmember braces.
Originally Posted by Mr Mojo
Isn't there a second build sheet tucked away somewhere in the front frame rail?
On both my 86 and an 87 that I owned there was a second build sheet in the drivers side front frame rail. They were both rolled or crumpled up but when removed were very legible. As I remember, they weren't exactly easy to extract however it was less work than getting the ones off the gas tanks.
In this particular case it would be worth taking a look. Whoever counterfeited the car may have overlooked this.
On both my 86 and an 87 that I owned there was a second build sheet in the drivers side front frame rail. They were both rolled or crumpled up but when removed were very legible. As I remember, they weren't exactly easy to extract however it was less work than getting the ones off the gas tanks.
In this particular case it would be worth taking a look. Whoever counterfeited the car may have overlooked this.