Your right no 2 engines are the same, but it gives u an idea, and both were dynoed on the same dyno in comparable weather conditions. Mini ram is a more daily driver friendly design IMO. as far as creating vac leaks, and for ease of more room under the hood to mess with things, ala timing and FP

 

http://www.stealthram.com/ He is probably refering to this, but in 3rd gen. someone else had a different intake compare. I think both can be set-up to make good power, I don't have any problems with using the mini, works fine, the obvious up side is installing, the other part is adding some other things to make it more viable, mine could use a little more gear, still flash the converter and it gets you there.

 

I have had both on the same engine, and, If you dont mind adding a 3.73 or more, rear gear or a decent stall them go Mini.

But if you are gonna stay with stock rear gears go with the SR.


I think the cam choice and overlap is the biggest issue not mentioned, with too much overlap, the tuning is a real nightmare.

 

Interesting replies....

Somebody had brought up the wonderful super rod publication comparison of about 10 different efi intakes in which the mini-ram made 505 hp and the Superram made 480 hp..... as a note, that was a 383 motor with comp cams hyd roller cam .520/.540 236/244 @ .050" and trick flow heads, 10-1cr. Here is the dyno results between the MR and SR side by side showing the Torque.

........... MR........ SR....... Diff....
2500....376.........380........+4
3000....386.........418........+32
3500....444.........480........+36
4000....458.........506........+48
4500....470.........502........+32
5000....470.........490........+20
5500....464.........458........-6
6000....440.........412........-28

As you can see, on a cam that actually should really favor the MR vs the SR the Superram has as much as 48 ftlbs of torque advantage over the MR, and isn't caught until 5500 rpm.

You can take the above dyno curves and run them in virtually any dragstrip simulator with an auto car, 3000 rpm converter, 3.45 gears and the Superram will out accelerate the Mini-ram to the 1/4 mile every time.....On my simulator, it wasn't until I worked my way up to a 4400 rpm converter and 3.73 gears that the MR caught and passed the SR in performance.

Point being, in my opinion, for you guys who are willing to run a big converter and/or gear, and a lot of cam, by all means run the MR, I think it would be the better intake.....but for the guys who use their vettes as a true street car, meaning you want to be able to hop in it and drive comfortably from coast to coast if you wanted (ie, hyd cam, 3000 or less converter)..... The SR is extremely hard to beat.

btw, the Stealthram really did well in that test.... here are the side by side torque results vs the SR

........... HSR....... SR....... Diff....
2500....380.........380........+0
3000....414.........418........+4
3500....460.........480........+20
4000....478.........506........+28
4500....492.........502........+10
5000....482.........490........+8
5500....472.........458........-14
6000....438.........412........-26

As you can see here, the HSR is still down to the SR in torque at 5000 rpm and below like the MR, but the torque dip isn't nearly as low as the MR, and it does quite well above 5500 rpm. My simulator has the SR nipping the HSR with the above torque curves by just 3 thousandths, in otherwords they are tied when using 3.45 gears, 3000 rpm converter in a c4.... as soon as I put in a 3400 rpm converter, the HSR jumped ahead of the Superram..... Too bad we can't fit those things under our hoods, I think Holley did a pretty good job with them. I know Grumpyvette or somebody like that used to offer one with a fabbed up plenum.... maybe it didn't work out.

They're all good intakes, you just have to decide how much converter, cam and gear you're willing to run and then go backwards after you've made that decision and choose your intake. But my opinion, for 90% of the forum members on this forum, the Superram would run better than the Miniram.... only about 10% of you are willing to run a big cam, solid cam and 4000+ converter..... but... do what you want... everybody does anyway.

As to the original poster.... with a 391 and Supercharger... I personally would run Jebs efi single plane intake with it.... but, to each his own.

good luck !

cheers,
Beach Bum

 

Actually that's completely false... The longer runner manifolds with smaller cross-section of port have much higher intake velocity than short runner manifolds. That's one of the reasons they make so much more torque at the sacrifice of topend horsepower. The velocity difference between a SR and an MR is pretty significant with the SR taking the prize. However, the MR does flow a lot more air and is a better manifold than the SR when all out power production is desired over low and mid-range torque. This subject has been hashed and rehashed over and over to the point of becoming pedantic... But, I'll put my $.02 in once more: the SR is THE manifold if you want a torquey motor that you're not constantly having to put valvesprings in (in other words, 6k rpm or less). The MR is better when you can either sacrifice bottom-end (big strokers) or are running deeper gears. It's a good manifold and is better for hp production than the SR. As pointed out above the MR can be ported to pretty good results. Jim Barth's manifold (TPI421Vette) flowed a little more than 300 cfm with a pretty heavy port job; and more can be had if you'd like to cut it in half and reweld it. The only problems that I've had with the MR is with cams with a lot of overlap; the reversion at low and mid rpm levels is almost impossible to tune out. But it's an excellent manifold all the same. For a street driven car I'd probably choose the SR... On FI it wholly depends on what rpm your boost is made and what the efficiency range of your turbo or s/c is... Personally I'd probably use a SR with a turbo setup on the street because they generally don't need the rpm and some flow deficiencies can be overcome with boost. Same thing with an S/C... But if I'm running a larger engine that needs 6k+ potential to make boost the MR (or a single plane) is the way I'll go.
-Jeb

 

with Beach

Just goes to show, you need to look at the entire curve and not just peak numbers. If you're looking for HP bragging rights or willing to setup the rest of the car accordingly....then go MR.

To add some credence to Beach's analysis, my nephews 396 LT1 with solid roller, AFR heads, 4.10 gears, couldn't get out of it's own way until we stepped up the converter considerably. With a nominal 3000 stall that was flashing to 3500, the car would only 60 around 1.6x. After stepping up to a 4500 stall that flashes to 5000 the car now 60s in the 1.4s (with no other changes). Meantime, my 406 w/similar cam/heads with 3000 stall and 3.45 gear 60'd at 1.50 the only time i ran it in avg weather with the SR. I've since switched to one of Jebs single planes and now 60 around 1.55, but at least the rear end doesn't fall out all the time

 

 

I have seen them both perform great! But the super also needed considerable porting to run as well.

My car is a mini ram pump gas 406 in an 87 trans am weighing 3450 with me. I only run a 3.73 gear with 28" tall tire - so that would be comperable to someone running 3.42's with the usual 26" tall tire.
with a tci street fighter (3200-3600) I believe, the car would 60 ft low 1.5 - and I think would have done 1.4's with a larger slick as I now run, I then stepped up to a super street fighter with a 12" lock disc and now 60ft a best of 1.42 on foot brake running 10.89 best.
Thats with a very streetable gear and converter, I drive the car alot
and actually just drove to Maryland 500 miles to run at MIR
but could only match my best due to trans not wanting to shift out of second.. But car drives wonderful and get over 20 mpg on highway.
I think if I had more TQ lower like the Super Ram would give would be very unusable on the street in a full trottle situation, my car is very tractable on the street even with my pep boys tire on rear.

 

Yo, Beech & Ralph , how are you? I allways enjoy your (beech) documentaries, I mean discussions. I definately agrea with your assumptions and if I were only running on the street I would have kept with the SR.
Yes, it is a pain to install but so is our transmissions, the payoff is considerably more than the initial pain of install!!!!!

Happy New Year!!!!!!

 

Hi Jim.....anthing new for next season?

ta...nice running car. i agree that at some point the SR can give you too much torque. I didn't want to have to fight traction and broken rears, so i softened the bottom a little by changing intakes. But as Beach said, for most people seeking advice here (particularly with street 350s), the SR is the way to go IMO. btw, what heads/cam/CR are you running?

 

I know I am opening a can of worms with this one but...

Does anyone know why Grumpyvette's Smaller HSR plenum design fell out of favor?

Did the smaller HSR plenum hurt performance? Is there Proof?

And finally, does anyone know who makes a modded plenum that allows the HSR fit under our C4 hoods?

 

Your right jburnett i said that backwards. basically what i was trying to get across was that longer runners aid to more TQ this is proven via lt1 93-97 vs tune port.

 

I will get in contact with the gentleman that fabbed his own HSR to fit stock hood, i will be glad to let u guys know! hopefully if he doesnt mind me sharing. And to add to others comments i too had a 4400 stall non lock up w/ my 406 that made the difference of the world, went from 1.62 short times with drag radials to 1.46 short times w/ the stall and no ther changes.

 

Hi Jim,

I'm doing great.... unfortunately the job has me on the road most weeks from m-f.... in fact, I go back out tomorrow morning.

How are you ? Looks like you went with Jebs intake and its working for you pretty good.... I'm thinking you're a gust of wind away from the 10's !! Thats pretty stout for a 383 !! I think you're getting due for one of those 434's aren't you !!

Ralph, where have you been ? Haven't heard from you in a month of sundays... thought maybe your wife took your toy away from you !!

On the SR vs MR discussion.... its been done so many times, I have no idea why I get involved anymore.... guess I was just bored. But, both are great intakes if put them in the right combination.

gotta run...

later
Beach

 

Beach, you lured me into this.....i saw your name pop up and couldn't resist. Like you said this has discussed to death and they should just put a sticky on one of these so everyone can refer to it.

I haven't heard much from you either.......figured you were traveling and didn't have time to play. I hope you're making some progress toward your return to bracket racing. Opening day will be hear before you know it.

 

Thanks Ralph,
Its a standard 406 block (with some core shift), cast scat crank, Cat
6" rods, SRP pistons with 16cc dish,afr 195cc heads comp port.. compression is 10.5ish
TPIS solid roller 242/242, self prom tuning.
The car has also gone 10.09 w/ 125 shot on pump gas also, here is a video of that.. It is prom activated at 15 mph.
http://media.putfile.com/1009
and the following 10.11
http://video.ls1tech.com/player.aspx...4-F93C189CE88A

- many of these parts may be for sale soon I think.. Any one interested PM..

Atleast the cam and maybe heads... Both great working order.

 

That combo is very similar to mine. What times does it run NA at say 1000 ft. DA (including short times and mph)? Are you running open headers? If not, what is your exhaust made up of. Also is the cam actually 242/242? Mine has that same spec, but is actually 246/246....TPIS is kinda sloppy with their grinds

At 1000 ft Da, i'm usually 11.teens but it's exhaust limited to the tune of about 2-3 tenths. I've got the same cam, but my heads are a little bigger (M2 215 Track1s) and my converter is a little tighter with less gear.

Beach, that might make a nice top end for your mill.

 

I'm with you on that one Alvin. If only I wouldn't have to butcher my hood to fit it.

Jake

 

It has run a best of 10.89 @ 126 @ 1700 ft DA. N/A w/1.44 60ft.
Its best MPH was @ sea level of 127 mph. N/A w/1.53 60ft (no prep)
But has run 11.0s @ 3000 ft. with 1.45 60s
on pump gas.
I have 1.75 headers. 3" y pipe into single 4" over axle, usually pull off muffler after axle at the track.
And as mentioned before 1.42 short times best N/A, depending on track prep, if its good its always in the 1.42-1.46 range.

 

87ta and Ralph,

Couple of good running motors guys.... I've always been on Ralph to get rid of his 2800 rpm 10.5" Pro-torque... or at least loosen up... not to mention scrapping the stock LT-1 exhaust he's running.

How often are you guys checking lash with the 242/242 TPIS cam ? And when you do, how far, if any, is it out ?

Ralph, I'm making progress on my motor.... however, it would go a bit faster if I would "actually win" a bid on ebay.... slimy buckets always come in with 2 minutes left in the auctions and bid through the roof for the good stuff....

btw, my old 383 short block is for sale if anybody is interested.... no hurry though, I don't have time right now to prepare for shipping.

later
Beach Bum