I did a search and found nothing that quite answers my question, so here goes.

I have a stock '93 with sawblades. Yesterday, I did a track day at Pocono. It is a high speed track, using about 2/3 of the NASCAR setup, and requires 2 very hard stops from over 120-130 MPH to 50-60 MPH. The car was inspected by a mechanic several days before the event. The front pads, with only 20K on them, passed; he replaced the rears. Stock pads all around, I believe. He had replaced the fluid with DOT 4 about one month ago.

Well, the brakes almost ruined my day. I never fully trusted them, and on the last run they gave out, causing a scary spin, a scraped up sawblade, and a loss of the last 10 minutes of track time. Thankfully, no one was hurt. Inspection shows nothing left of the fronts, and the pedal is still very soft; the check ABS and check ASR lights go on if I hit the brake pedal.

I don't want to sink a bunch of money into the brakes (the car is a daily driver and I would do something like this only once a year). Is anyone aware of replacement pads that perform enough better than stock to last through a track day? Is there a recommended brand of brake fluid less prone to boiling (which I think also happened)? Can I fit some cheap cooling ducts?

Or, should I just wait a few years until I can get a C5? (Those guys had no problems with their stock brakes.)

Thanks for any advice!

 

Stock pads aren't really up to extreme braking effort on fast tracks like Pocono. You probably should have used a high performance brake pad like Hawk HP+ or other similar compound that is designed for HPDE and track days.

DOT4 fluid should be OK; what brand of fluid was used for the flush? I would have used something like ATE Super Blue or even Motul. Fluids with a wet boiling point of around 400 degrees at a minimum is at the bottom end of DOT4 fluids. I do a complete fluid flush before a track day and do one afterwards. Fluid is not terribly expensive and easy to change if you have a set of Speed Bleeders or a pump or vacuum bleeder.

With the pedal being soft, you most likely boiled the fluid. Check the fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir. Even just a 1/4" low will cause the ABS/ASR lights to come on. Add fluid and bleed the brakes and the lights should go out.

Some way to keep the brakes and fluid cool would have helped too. Mid America has a replacement front spoiler that includs flexible ducts that can be aimed at the rotor or caliper. Think it's only around $120 or so.

With the pads being gone as you described, chances are the rotors are toast too. Excessive heat can warp stock rotors and I would bet they are heavily grooved or worn to the point where they should be tossed. Stock rotors are fine for one track day a year, but they should be in new or near new condition. Rotors are cheap so for prepping for a track day, you might want to consider new rotors for track day and having another set for street use. They are relatively easy to change and takes about an hour or so to do.

 

I have wilwood brakes on my vette and couldn't be happier....a friend was recently telling me about portafilled pads...they seem great...amazing stopping power...definitely check these out.....

 

c4cruiser hit on the main points. Stock brakes are definitely NOT safe for a track like that unless you're taking it very easy on the car. You obviously lost your pads and sounds like you boiled the fluid too.

The response depends a lot on how much you're planning on running at these types of events and how agressive you'll be.

To reiterate the areas to focus on:

Fluid. Ford superblue, motul 600, wilwood, etc fluid is a must (Castrol if you're rich). Flush and fill the whole system and bleed it after each session to be safe. These fluids have a much higher boiling point than the normal stuff you get at the parts store.

Cooling. The mid-america setup mentioned above is better than nothing. Ideally, run some 3" ducts directly to the center of the front rotors. If you do a search in the roadracing section, there's a recent thread on C4 brake cooling ducts with some good pics. Without proper cooling, even the high-temp fluid will eventually boil. Your pads and rotors will also wear out a lot faster.

Pads. Stock pads aren't up to the task even with fluid and cooling. At the very least, go with some Performance Friction Z-Rated pads or Hawk HPS. If you're going all-out, step up to something like a Perf Friction 01 racing pad. They get really pricy, though. You definitely won't want to run a racing pad on the street for daily driving, though. They don't bite well until hot.

Brake upgrades. The problem you have on your '93 (unless you have a Z07) is that you only have 12" front rotors. You can get the parts relatively easy to upgrade to 13" fronts which will help. A lot of guys will tell you to do the C5 upgrade, which is nice, but performance-wise isn't much better than the C4 13" system. If you decide to upgrade, check prices. The big advantage of the C5 system is that rotors are much cheaper than C4 rotors.

Obviously, you can always go nuts and go with Wilwood, Brembo, MovIt, or one of the others. I'd hold off on that until you decide to really take the plunge on these type of events. I have Willwoods on mine and love them, but I ran for several years on the stock system with pads, fluid, and cooling and had no problems.

 

Don't trust that mechanic again, he must have never roadraced. New performance pads should always be used for track days. I can't even get 6k miles out of my pads, much less 20k and I don't even roadrace my car. Luckily, I get to run my dad's car. Brakes will always be a problem area at roadcourses.

 

Thanks for the advice and comments. I thought I'd update the situation as most of you hit the nail on the head.

Final damages are front and rear pads (my God -- the rears were brand new yet were consumed after 130 or so track miles), front rotors and calipers. Interestingly, in answer to one comment, my mechanic and most of his staff are active autocrossers, and he actually is an experienced (no longer active) IMSA roadracer -- but much smaller cars than Vettes. Also, he has a number of satisfied Vette customers (but street cars only). So I do trust him -- but we were both unprepared for this!

I really enjoyed my day, but I don't see this as more than an annual event. I'll probably want to do both days in future years. Good news, my mechanic has been very receptive to what I've forwarded him from the Forum. So, we'll work through this.

Too bad I have too many other hobbies to wrench my own car. I can't make all the upgrades I'd like to, or spend more time doing track days, because then I'd REALLY run out of money.

 

Onyx - sounds like you are describing Dutch Dryden!

What did you do with the front calipers? The PBR calipers are not good for performance use, they don't have enough venting (er, any?) at the top to allow heat out. The caliper will then soften and spread. Real bad.