Roger that thanks mate

 

I've tried all of them with no luck. I just tried the one from the FSM and it looks correct. Unfortunately this didnt work either. I just dont get it, I take my time and make sure everything is correct. I still think these valves are extremely sensitive and that they could have been better designed. I could take the valves on and off my '87 Buick Lesabre and not have any problems at all. I dont have any money to pay someone else to fix it.

I have been seriously considering just letting it sit in the garage and eventually selling it. I dont want to, but i've wasted at least 40 hours working on it with no results.

 

I took an old set of covers and with a hole saw cut holes to just get the socket onto the nut. Glue a set of gaskets to the old covers and you got no mess. I had the t-handle bolts so I could get them on and off fast

 

Pm me with a phone number if you wish and I'll try to talk you down!

 

Unfortunately, you are right...You just don't get it. I'm not sure where you are going wrong. You won't describe, precisely, as I asked, what you are doing. You say, you understand and can recognize zero lash, but... None of the methods described, here are wrong. Some are better described and some are easier to follow, but just about everyone of them will get the job done.

Try this: Turn the engine so you can see the timing mark and make note of where it is. Ir doesn't matter where it is, but you want to be able do duplicate the position, later, when it's time to turn the engine 360°. Back off all the the rocker arm adjusting nuts, until you can move each push rod up and down. Now go down the line, front to back and tighten each adjusting nut, while you jiggle the push rod up and down, between the lifter and the rocker arm. JUST as the push rod loses the ability, the room, to go up and down, stop turning the adjusting nut. Do this to all eight valves on one side of the engine. Go to the other side of the engine and continue. Once you have done all 16 valves, rotate the engine 360°. Some valves will have tight push rods and some will have loose push rods. Adjust ONLY the loose push rods, the same as you did before you rotated the engine. Tighten the adjusting nut, while you jiggle the push rod up and down, until it just barely stops jiggling. Do all of the loose push rod valves, only. Now, at least loosely install the valve covers. Start the engine and allow it to warm up. The engine SHOULD be rather noisy, with valve clattering. That is OK. No harm will be done in the short term. Remove one rocker cover and place some rocker stoppers or at least a rag over the push rod end of the rocker arms to control oil. Start the engine and in a methodical order, such as front to rear, loosen a rocker nut and listen for the increasing noise. Tighten that same nut, until the noise JUST barely stops. Slowly tighten that nut 1/2, 3/4 or 1 turn. In this case, one full turn is probably best. The engine may try to stumble and stall while you are tightening that last turn, but just pause and wait for the engine to recover, then continue. Go down the line and do 8 more. Replace the valve cover and repeat on the other side. That HAS to get you going!

RACE ON!!!

 

Bingo, I think this is his problem! When he originally cranked the valves down to tight, he forced the oil out of the lifters. Now the only resistance at zero lash is the spring inside the lifter, and that's not nearly as strong as a lifter full of oil.

4Ever21, is there any poping through the intake or exhaust when you try to start the car now? There should be if the valves are to tight. Have you checked the rest of the basics, like fuel pressure and spark, just in case something else coincidently failed at the same time?

 

Misjudging zero lash is the #1 problem with setting hydraulic lifters. He has sworn, he knows how to find zero lash.

That is possible, but highly unlikely.

RACE ON!!!

 

Alright heres the deal, finally got it started again but with the same results as before, rpms around 400 and then it dies after about 10 seconds. The voltage reading drops steadily to low 11's just before dying. Sounds horrible but not lopey like before.

So if the rpms are low and theres no tapping, do they need to be looser or tighter?

 

Most likely looser, my guess is those rockers are to tight, causing the valve to hang open and those cylinders to miss, this is why I was asking if there was any poping out the intake or exhaust (there may or may not be, depending on if the intake or exhaust is hanging open). Try loosening them one turn at a time and then restarting to see if it starts getting better. Also, another sanity check at this point would be either a compression test on the affected cylinders (to make syre it didn't bend any valves when they were originally torqued down), or quick test by laying a straight edge across the tops of all 16 or the valve retainers (the stems would be better, but you'de have to remove all the rockers to get to them, and I doubt you want to do that at this point) and make sure none of them are significantly lower than the others when the cam is on the base circle (Valve closed). Also lay it across the tops of the rocker studs and make sure none of them have pulled out and are sticking up higher than the rest.

 

Ps. the cars going to have to run for a few minutes each time to pump the lifters back up.

 

The procedure in post #35 is the way I've always done it without the engine running....if you followed that procedure and can take the push rod twist it and jiggle it up and down a little...the car will start and run, barring anyother unforseen problems. This is when I adjust them while the car is running. Don't quite understand how this got so blown out. But it sounds like you're getting close. Yes, my procedure..adjusting while running can get messy, but it's the best way..In my opinion. BUT, you have to take it slow. Good luck.

 

Rick,

If I understand it right, he mixed up the specs in his manual and torqued the rocker adjusting nuts originally, forcing all the oil out of the lifters. Thats how they got so out of whack to begin with. I'm just hoping he didn't bend anything then.

 

hmmmmmmmm.Well, if he losened em up, it should run, although he may have to give it time for the lifters to pump up.

 

I checked and nothing is bent, it wasnt run for more than 5 seconds at a time when trying to start it. I knew it could cause damage running like that.

I'm still loosening them hoping to get it right. I'm going at about 1/4 turn each time cause the last time I set the valves was using the FSM instructions. So far its not getting much better.

 

May take a long time at 1/4 turns, you might want to consider 1/2 turns until at least one of them starts to click. At least you know they were too tight if you get 3/4 to a full turn out and no clicking has started! Stick with it and I think we'll finally have you back on the road. And don't feel bad, I've been scratching my head all weekend trying to figure out why my stupid Chevy II won't pump gas up to the Carb., think I've narrowed it down to the braided stainless steel hose in betheen the hard line on the frame and the pumps suction side having a pin hole in it and sucking air! No clue how that happened!! Gonna go change it now, I'll check back with you tomorrow and see how you made out.

 

I'm starting to think there's something else going on here. This shouldn't be THAT difficult.

I wonder if there just isn't a bunch of collapsed lifters now and it's like pissing in the wind.

 

I only have 3 cylinders with affected valves: 2,4, and 6. I have it running now, but it stalls. I dont entirely understand collapsed lifters but i'm sure it'll run eventually.

The only other thing it could be is timing, but I havent messed with that.

 

You'll get it yet! How did you deterimine that only cylinders 2, 4 and 6 are affected? Correct me if I am mistaken but aren't those the same cylinders you started on? Have you checked compression on the affected cylinders?
If the rockers are not tapping while running I would continue to loosen until they do make some noise. As others have said you may need to let it run awhile for the lifters to pump up, idle speed should be fine. Good luck, don't give up.

 

I didnt determine anything, 2,4, and 6 are the ones that I took rocker arms off of.

I loosened the rocker arms another half turn just now and they seemed pretty loose. Started it up, same popping sound and low rpms and eventuall stalling. I could hear the valves tapping now cause they were loose. So it wont run right when they're tight or loose or anything in between. I guess that narrows it down to timing. The only way I know how to set the timing is while the engine is running and with a timing light. So any other tips for checking the timing? I have no idea how it could have been thrown off but it seems possible since i'm dealing with valves and the cam and such.

 

I'd leave the timing alone if you haven't touched the distributor, doing so will just add another variable to the mix. Are you saying you have only adjusted cylinders 2, 4 & 6 or are those the only ones you had the rockers off?