WE can not see the timing marks with 4 differnt timing lights we have marked them well and it doesn't matter if the est is pluged in or not. No matter were we look we can not see the marks. The other day we could dail it in with out any problems but since then we replaced the injectors and the intake runners and put the cap back on. Now we can not check timming. It will fire right up and idles fine put will not quite run right down the road we can move the distributor all around and make changes but can not find the marks. Hell I put it on a lift and can not make any sign of timing mark I am open to any suggestions???? It is as if the timming light is out of phase with the marks. Trying to make FUNFEST!! WRO87

 

What rpm are you at during your search

 

been outside to try to figure it out running man all the guys here are scrathin there heads around 800 rpm

 

It sounds as though the ring on the damper may have turned.

RACE ON!!!

 

Lets hope not Do you have a piston stop to verify TDC ??
Can you lower the rpm and see if it comes around.

 

 

It starts right up and idles pretty good. We took it out and it was pingin so we moved the dist. alittle and that took care of that. Should I try some differnt RP{M ranges to see if can find mark??

 

My first thought is to return to square one:

Are you absolutely SURE you connected the timing light to the #1 spark plug wire?

Jake

 

You will need to unplug the IAC and turn down the idle screw to see if 5-600 rpm will shed any light on the mark. I can see mine at 800 rpm, so i'm crossing my fingers for you.
By any chance you are a ford guy and have the timing light pick up on #2

 

I'v been outside again and checking things out. I can move the dist. and get the idle to 500 and NO MARKS NO WERE on either side of the block(just tryin to find them). We have NONEof those 4 letter "F" words around here and won't let them in the drive. yes we it on #1 had it caught up in the steering joint when I turned the wheels took alittle bit to get it out so don't burn the wire. It didin't help if I set the idle up/down still can't find the marks

 

Happened to mine, needed a new damper. A common problem as the cars get older.

 

Any simple fix ar other way to get timing set or going to have to pull pulley wro

 

Borrow/buy/build a piston stop and find true TDC before pulling the dampner. Good Luck

 

Pulling the pulley will do nothing. Once you have verified that the timing marks don't line up at TDC, you will have to replace the damper, for several reasons. In the meantime, Do you have the single EST wire unplugged while you are checking the timing? Your opening post says it is disconnected. I'm just trying to be sure it us the right wire. If you are using a "dial back" timing light, it the dial adjusted back to zero? Sometimes the simplest things...

RACE ON!!!

 

Well with all the help I've been getting from the forum and here in town is seems that some how the balancer has shot craps !!! We went to FUNFEST yesterday Plan "B" took Steel car as they say. Talked with Gordon K. and seems not out of common problem (especially on those with years and low miles) but it is not that easy to pull the damn thing off once its in the car. They said to use shorter bolts that will free up room! Will try today. Does any one have good recommendations for a Balancer?? Thanks WRO

 

It sure would hurt to confirm that before you go to the trouble and expense of a new one.

That is why I mentioned it. I've changed mine while in the car. It's not a bad job. The shorter bolts apply to the bolts that come with the puller. They can interfere with the steering rack. The only bolts on the car you will deal with are the three that hold the pulley on and the center bolt in the crank for the damper. Shorter, won't make any difference. NOW it will help to remove the pulley.

RACE ON!!!

 

I didn't see where you posted the year of your car, but from your handle I'm assuming it's an 87.

Actually it isn't too hard to pull the damper. I have an 86 and mine is much the same as yours, so here's how I have been able to remove my damper.

I remove the serpentine belt.

I remove the fan shroud and fan to give me more clearance to work. Years ago, I sectioned my shroud so I can remove the upper part while leaving the lower part in place.

I disconnect the power steering line that bolts onto the rack directly in front of the crank pulley and damper. I now have enough clearance to install the damper puller when that time comes.

I remove the three bolts holding the crank pulley.

I remove the large center bolt on the damper. With an impact it's a piece of cake. Without an impact, it probably will be necessary to find a way to keep the engine from turning over as you attempt to break loose the torque holding that bolt.

There a couple of ways I've used to do this.

One is to jackup the car and have someone hold the tip of a screwdriver or other similiar tool into the flexplate. As you try to break loose the torque, the screwdriver keeps the engine from turning over.

The other way I've used is to put a 1/2" socket, short extension breaker bar on the head of the damper bolt, then BUMP the starter. If positioned correctly the breaker bar will lock against some part of the frame and bumping the starter will break loose the torque.

Once that bolt has been removed, you should now have enough clearance to install the damper puller and its three bolts.
Be sure to thread the three damper pulley bolts in as far as you can to prevent stripping the threads in the damper. Damper can then be pulled right off.

You'll need a damper installation tool, too, in order to install the new damper.

Lightly oil the crank snout and the large, inside of the mounting hole of the new damper. Index the keyway on the damper with the - (what's that thing called, a "Woodruff Key"?) on the crank snout.

Thread the installation tool into the center hole of the crank. Be sure to thread it in as far as you can, again, to prevent pulling the threads.

Using two wrenches or one socket and one wrench, begin tightening the nut on the installation tool, turning this nut presses on the new damper.

I believe AutoZone rents both for free.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

Well gang heres what we have we have a 87 roadster with a 89 L98 we have droppped in that we built up. WE have double checked everything and we know when we are on TDC piston up rockers at mid point the dist is pointing in the right direction but the timming marks can not be found where ever we look on the crank top or bottom. seems the balancer has shot craps taled to lot of guys yesterday that it does happen far and few between. The car will start put can't se the timing with out the marks. Took forever to find the EST my FM showsa a four plug on the back of the dist. (did that was wroung)but finnally found the single lt/brown (beige)and black wire under the power brake booster. Still no marks

O! well any recommendations as to a got harmonic balancer?

Will take the PS lines loose and that should give us enough room to finish pulin the old od off.
WRO87

 

Do this:

There should be a groove cut into the OD of the harmonic damper which would indicate the TDC reference mark.

Take a rag or paper towel and reach down to wipe off any oil, dirt, etc., off the harmonic damper; not the face of the damper, but, instead the area where the hash mark will be. You want a clean surface to better be able to see the TDC hash mark on the damper.

Disconnect the BAT terminal wire from the distributor, it should the white one. The brown one is the tach wire.

Now have someone slowly BUMP over the engine a little at a time while you, at the same time shine a bright light down on the harmonic damper and look closely for the hash mark.

Once you see it, stop the bumping and use something that will make it stand out: A yellow crayon, red fingernail polish, anything that will mark that spot so it's easier to see when the timing light is flashing.

Now re-connect the timing light, making sure it's connected to the #1 plug wire. re-connect the Bat terminal wire and fire the engine.

If the engine will fire and run, even if it runs badly, the timing can't be too far off. If it's much too much advanced the engine will crank really slowly, like it's laboring; too retarded and yu may get backfires or the exhaust headers/mainfold will turn red from the heat.

If you STILL can't see the mark you made, shut down the engine then, while holding the trigger on the timing light, have someone slowly bump the engine GRADUALLY (we don't want it to actually start up).

While you're holding the trigger and the engine is being BUMPED over, at some point the timing light will flash. Stop the bumping at that point and, using a flashlight or drop-light look down at the damper and see where the highlighted hash mark is located.

Look closely and carefully, it may be at the 3 or 4 o'clock position or it may be at the 10 or 11 o'clock position.

In any event this will tell you how close you are to where you want to be.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Jake

 

Jake thanks for the thoughts. The engine is all new we with no cats or AIR makes it nice to see the timming marks a straight shot to them. We tried that deal of barley turning it over and we can easliy see the timing mark with our eyes but man when we fire it up it just goes away(like some one has plucked it off the balancer). We have eveng put it on a hoist to see up from the bottom and we can't find anywhere? You are right we have to be real close to having it on the mark, the dist. is in the right space the tach leads pointing to the power brake booster and it will fire up and run but it not quite right. Will keep you guys informed the Harmonic balancer (real low miles on the engine) is just about the only thing that was not replaced and used over. My son said that he had said he didn't like the way the rubber joint look hate to say it he might have been right on this one! WRO