AFR Heads again!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 22,209
Likes: 12
From: OBAMA IS HITLER
Originally Posted by bill mcdonald
I have AFR 190 heads, and a high volume oil pump on mny L-98
I have the same issues. 100 mile drive, oil is low.
I have the same issues. 100 mile drive, oil is low.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 3
From: Citrus Heights California
WOW! I read that link and this thread. I'm new here and I always thought AFR was top shelf. I was thinking about buying their new Eliminators for my vette. Think I might port my L98 heads and add 1.6 RRs at the same time instead. Thank you all. You may have saved me some $ and a major headache.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,426
Likes: 4
From: Heidelberg PA
Cruise-In V Veteran
Originally Posted by jburnett
I don't have any on this computer and don't remember taking any pics but I do believe I have a set of AFR 190CNC LTx heads at my shop that we did this too.. If they are I'll take a pic and post them.
-Jeb
-Jeb
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 914
Likes: 1
From: Redding Ca
WOW! I read that link and this thread. I'm new here and I always thought AFR was top shelf. I was thinking about buying their new Eliminators for my vette. Think I might port my L98 heads and add 1.6 RRs at the same time instead. Thank you all. You may have saved me some $ and a major headache.
The Eliminators are very new and have apparently addressed the oil problem. The oil issue discussed here relate to the vintage they are about to replace. If they live up to their billing, they are better heads than ported stockers by quite a wide margin.
Incidentally, I have the earlier version discussed here in AFR 195 Street heads, and have no problems, but I do not have a high revving engine either.
BTW TJ, the car is still running fine. Thank you so much for fixing it.
Geo
The Eliminators are very new and have apparently addressed the oil problem. The oil issue discussed here relate to the vintage they are about to replace. If they live up to their billing, they are better heads than ported stockers by quite a wide margin.
Incidentally, I have the earlier version discussed here in AFR 195 Street heads, and have no problems, but I do not have a high revving engine either.
BTW TJ, the car is still running fine. Thank you so much for fixing it.
Geo
Last edited by GeosFun; Oct 10, 2006 at 03:04 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
wasn't there a distinct problem with the AFR heads oil pooling or something of that nature? Last I ran a HV pump was in a built 327 and had no problems. There was a hugh post re; AFR heads not long ago..
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
From: Manama Bahrain
Originally Posted by bill mcdonald
I have AFR 190 heads, and a high volume oil pump on mny L-98
I have the same issues. 100 mile drive, oil is low.
I took them apart 3 times. replaced the seals. resealed the rocker studs. and pretty much gave up. debating on adding drain lines to the valve covers, or getting those cnc brodix heads heads.
I have the same issues. 100 mile drive, oil is low.
I took them apart 3 times. replaced the seals. resealed the rocker studs. and pretty much gave up. debating on adding drain lines to the valve covers, or getting those cnc brodix heads heads.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
From: Toronto ONTARIO
Tom. I have the EXACT SAMEproblem with My GM LT4 heads.
Here is what was happening. Under high rpm decceleration there would be smoke from the exhaust. AND just as your customer experienced My oil level would be 3-3.5 litres MISSING in just under 1 week.
My PCV tube was FULL of oil when i disconnected it. Under High rpm decceleration i can only assume the Canton pan which slows oil drainage to the pan with baffles causes the heads to have a higher level of oil. WHen the throttle blades are shut after a high rpm pull the Vaccum is incredibly high and is sucking the oil from the heads through the pcv.
Since a few days ago when I figured this out I plugged the throttle body and put a breather on the valve cover. A few days later My oil level is exactly as I left it. I'm going to put a breather on for a few weeks and re-check.
things to check..
Pull the intake duct and open the throttle blades. Check for oil all over the inside of the manifold. if there's oil in there than its not your rings, its the pcv sucking it in.
Good luck !
Here is what was happening. Under high rpm decceleration there would be smoke from the exhaust. AND just as your customer experienced My oil level would be 3-3.5 litres MISSING in just under 1 week.
My PCV tube was FULL of oil when i disconnected it. Under High rpm decceleration i can only assume the Canton pan which slows oil drainage to the pan with baffles causes the heads to have a higher level of oil. WHen the throttle blades are shut after a high rpm pull the Vaccum is incredibly high and is sucking the oil from the heads through the pcv.
Since a few days ago when I figured this out I plugged the throttle body and put a breather on the valve cover. A few days later My oil level is exactly as I left it. I'm going to put a breather on for a few weeks and re-check.
things to check..
Pull the intake duct and open the throttle blades. Check for oil all over the inside of the manifold. if there's oil in there than its not your rings, its the pcv sucking it in.
Good luck !
Last edited by DieL; Nov 15, 2006 at 04:52 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
From: Toronto ONTARIO
I also think this has a lot to do with the high volume pump. Thats where all the oil starving horror stories come from. The high volume pump is probably filling up the valve covers and perhaps even forcing oil to go into the pcv.
When I drop my pan again I may switch back to a stock volume pump.
Wish I could have respnded to this sooner but I just got married and its been a hectic week. Hope you all check your intake and pcv. Im betting its your problem.
When I drop my pan again I may switch back to a stock volume pump.
Wish I could have respnded to this sooner but I just got married and its been a hectic week. Hope you all check your intake and pcv. Im betting its your problem.
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 2
From: Little Rock Arkansas
Originally Posted by Kool88vette
WOW! I read that link and this thread. I'm new here and I always thought AFR was top shelf. I was thinking about buying their new Eliminators for my vette. Think I might port my L98 heads and add 1.6 RRs at the same time instead. Thank you all. You may have saved me some $ and a major headache.
-Jeb
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
I also have this problem. My first setup was ported LT1 heads and cam on a stock shortblock, stock oil pump. I was filling up 2 litres of oil a week. My intake had a light coating of oil on the inside. My plugs were fine.
I assumed because my heads were milled my intake was not seated properly and it was sucking in oil. Before I could figure this out, I had magor engine failure (my POS Comp R lifters spun in their bore and took out my cam.)
I now have a forged 396 shortblock, with ported LT1 heads and a Meling HV 55 high volume pump. I just got it back together last week. I was very happy until the LOW OIL light cam on. I was down 2-3 litres in 1 week.
I am going to check my PCV when I get home tonight. I am determined to figure this out. Two different set ups...both consume oil.
Can someone tell me... is it necessary to mill your intake if your heads are milled?
I assumed because my heads were milled my intake was not seated properly and it was sucking in oil. Before I could figure this out, I had magor engine failure (my POS Comp R lifters spun in their bore and took out my cam.)
I now have a forged 396 shortblock, with ported LT1 heads and a Meling HV 55 high volume pump. I just got it back together last week. I was very happy until the LOW OIL light cam on. I was down 2-3 litres in 1 week.
I am going to check my PCV when I get home tonight. I am determined to figure this out. Two different set ups...both consume oil.
Can someone tell me... is it necessary to mill your intake if your heads are milled?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 11
From: somers, ny
My 406 will also pass quite a bit of oil thru the PCV system. I have a 10% over volume pump. The valve covers are well baffled and i'm using Brodix heads. I had to put a separator (AKA a compressor filter...lol) in the PCV line to prevent oil from being sucked into the intake. I used to have to drain the separator every 500-750 miles and the engine used about 1 Qt over that period. The engine has since sealed itself a little better and it doesn't consume quite as much oil. It's easy to test......just eliminate the PCV and replace it with a breather. If the consumption stops........there's your problem.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
Now I have another customer, same heads AFR 210s on top of a all forged 383 with flat tops, one of my custom grind cams, and a Melling 55HV. He is sucking oil on high RPM deccel as well. I have got to get to the bottom of this. I have a brand new set of AFR 210s sitting on the shelf for my new engine. Maybe Tony Mamo will swap my set for one of their new eliminator series heads 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,889
Likes: 2
From: Castro Valley Calif.
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Drainback was an issue I was very aware of when I did my build 2 or 3 years ago (AFR 195s) as John mentioned in post 13. I was not aware of the ball milling technique at that time, nor did I think about it. 
I darn sure would've milled them if I had known though, as I wanted the best performing head I could get at that time and was willing to make whatever allowances were necessary.
I think I got lucky, as my motor doesn't use much oil at all; and all I did was put in some viton seals and use a standard volume oil pump. My car only spins 5200 tops though so I'm sure that helps a bunch too. I bet a std volume pump and good seals would really help this problem a lot Tom.
I darn sure would've milled them if I had known though, as I wanted the best performing head I could get at that time and was willing to make whatever allowances were necessary. I think I got lucky, as my motor doesn't use much oil at all; and all I did was put in some viton seals and use a standard volume oil pump. My car only spins 5200 tops though so I'm sure that helps a bunch too. I bet a std volume pump and good seals would really help this problem a lot Tom.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,472
Likes: 0
From: Toronto ONTARIO
Originally Posted by tjwong
Now I have another customer, same heads AFR 210s on top of a all forged 383 with flat tops, one of my custom grind cams, and a Melling 55HV. He is sucking oil on high RPM deccel as well. I have got to get to the bottom of this. I have a brand new set of AFR 210s sitting on the shelf for my new engine. Maybe Tony Mamo will swap my set for one of their new eliminator series heads
Last edited by DieL; Nov 15, 2006 at 04:57 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
Originally Posted by STL94LT1
That depends on how much the heads have been milled.
On my second build, my block was zero decked and my heads were reworked and improved by Meaux Racing Heads who said he only "kissed" the surfaced. The intake bolts were slightly off but we were able to get it down good and tight amd properly tourqed with RTV where needed.
I am going to try eliminating the PCV and see what happens.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,014
Likes: 18
From: Raleigh, NC
I didn't read the whole thread, but here's an experience I had:
Same issues, lots of oil consumption, plugs looked OK, no oil out the back.
It turned out one of the wrist pins had walked out of the piston and gouged the cylinder wall. How the plug on that cylinder looked OK, I'll never know, but it did. Before it was torn down, it was going through a quart every 400 miles or so. No smoke, and it made 475 RWHP the same day it was torn apart. Ran smooth as could be.
One of the weirdest things I've ever seen.
Same issues, lots of oil consumption, plugs looked OK, no oil out the back.
It turned out one of the wrist pins had walked out of the piston and gouged the cylinder wall. How the plug on that cylinder looked OK, I'll never know, but it did. Before it was torn down, it was going through a quart every 400 miles or so. No smoke, and it made 475 RWHP the same day it was torn apart. Ran smooth as could be.
One of the weirdest things I've ever seen.