Ok, I've decided to see if the 4+3 will hold up to my new stroker motor, but before I put it all back together I need to check into a problem it was having. My car had trouble shifting. When you tried to put it into gear, especially first, the shifter would get stuck. It didn't grind, it would just stop moving. Other gears did it too, but mostly first at a dead stop. My thoughts on this are that the shifter is worn out. With the trans out of the car, the dog-ears move easily in both directions in and out of gear. I can feel a little sticking in the shifter with the trans out, but I'm not sure what is causing it. Anyone else ever had this problem with a 4+3? Could it simply have been out of adjustment? If so, how do I adjust it?

 

what you specifically described is most often caused by a ''dragging'' clutch ....if the clutch does not fully disengage....could be a clutch disc warped or bent (often bent by 'hanging' the trans unsupported in the disc during trans install/remove) , warped pressure plate. twisted trans input shaft, clutch linkage problem

 

 

Interesting. I would have thought that a clutch problem would cause grinding. Anyway, since my new 383 has to be externally balanced I'm getting a new flywheel, clutch disc, pressure plate, pilot bushing, etc. I'm also taking this opportunity to rebuild my clutch slave and master and replace the line. The only thing I'm not sure of is the trans input shaft. How would I check that?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the clutch is self-adjusting, right?

 

There is no adjustment

 

I was just remembering taking the enigne apart and thought maybe this was important too (probably should have included it at the beginning). When I removed the clutch and flywheel the pilot bushing fell out onto the floor. When I picked it up you could see that it had been spun inside the crank because the outside of the pilot bushing was scored. Could a loose pilot bushing cause my trans problems?

 

sorry that i don't know the theory of why this is, but have seen it a number of times...new hardware is normally the cure...visual inspection of the trans input splines will evidence a grossly twisted part, determine the installed position of the new disc on the trans, slide the disc on and check for free movement in that area....for optimum performance, ''lap'' the new disc to the shaft using ''valve grinding compound'' and bunches of elbow grease.
the clutch is self adjusting unless someone has added the wrong fluid to the master and the mix created a precipitate which interferes with the operations, or if road grit at the pivot points or end of the fork causes excessive friction or worn ''ridges'' to appear.

a loose pilot bearing might be the culprit, might allow the trans input shaft to run out of true and angle the disc....or the input shaft may have excessive run-out which killed the pilot bushing...i would support the end of the input shaft with a vee-block and dial indicate it at its center while turning the trans output by hand...don't have actual specs for max allowable run-out, but would expect .002'' max

 

I'll check the run-out of the input shaft at the end and the middle out of curiosity. The bushing wasn't egged out or enlarged from the inside. It was spun in the same way a main bearing gets spun when it's over-revved or something. I'm not actually sure how it happened, but I'm hoping it's the culprit. I've got new everything, even the crank, so when I finally get the car back together I'm hoping this is gone. What, praytell, could possibly cause an input shaft to bend or twist?

 

The way I understand is the 4+3 is a regular 4 speed with the Doug
Nash 2 speed small automatic. ( tiny powerglide) I don't think the
Doug Nash unit is your problem.

 

twist apparently is the result of high engine output + flywheel inertia acting against the resistance of the drivetrain....i have seen a number of swap meet muncie and super t-10 tranmission input shafts with a very noticeable twist in the input shaft splines, esp units used by drag racers, pretty sure those were not machined that way.. even seen a few input shafts twisted and broken completely off in t-5 trannys and old 3-speeds (still popular with circle track racers due to low rotating mass), with evidence that radial offset (bending) occurred at some point -- altho that offset may have been at the instant of total failure, i would suspect that minor offset occured prior to failure.

 

Interesting. I asked my Dad and he offered an idea. The car sat, unstarted for over 4 years. He believes that a small amount of rust may have accumulated on the input shaft and frozen the pilot bushing onto the shaft. When the car was finally gotten running again the pilot bushing spun in the end of the crank until it broke free, which caused the slop I found in the bushing and ultimately caused the shifting problem. Sound plausible?

 

rust could cause that....the pilot bushing is ''oil-lite bronze'', which is the original ''powdered metal'' manufacturing process but mixed with oil in the metal powder before being compressed--oil should leach out and reduce rusting, but could be another theory bites the dust....i have seen many loose pilot bearings upon disassembly of daily driven cars, do not consider it an unusual failure --i routinely check bellhousing alignments both ways, visual inspect everything else, install new ''wear'' items and have been fortunate to have no problems.

new factor is the 4-year hibernation (news to me at least)....corrosion of flywheel face or many other places could easily cause clutch drag...internal pitting (corrosion damage) of master and slave clutch cylinders is possible, resulting in premature pressure plate release, inspection required

 

Make sure the shifter is adjusted properly. Inside the tunnel, accessed from inside the car you will be able to adjust it. This is the tool you will need to adjust it in neutral:

 

I can machine that at school this week. Do you have any links to instructions on how to adjust the shifter? I'm intending to buy and install a short-shift kit while I'm at it, so the adjustment will be totally off. What size is that square hole (or doesn't it matter)? Is this adjustment different than the adjustment to the rods?

 

Does not matter the size of the square hole. It is only a key. If you haven't already, look under your carpet under the driver's side. That is where I found my key. The key holds the shifter in what I would call a "true" nuetral position.

Adjustments are made from under the car by adjusting nuts on the linkage rods.

 

First off....

The 4 plus 3 shifter wears at the bias point. Look at your shifter body. You will have a tack welded adjustment nut. This piece adjusts the reverse lock out rod so that it aligns correctly at the end of the 1-2 gate.

Once adjusted the set bolt is tact welded into place.

THE PROBLEM. The reverse rod WEARS. So now when you pull all the way over into first, sometimes you are grabbing the reverse gate. This gives a funky feel to the shifter.

FIX: If the rod isn't completely worn, grind the weld and make a new ajustement bolt to correctly move the rod in to compensate for wear.

In regards to clutch release issues.... I had written a whole piece on this at the FAQ section of http://www.5speeds.com/board.html

 

I posted a question related to this in General Discussion and was referred here. Your input was helpful. My problem turned out to be the master and slave hydraulic cylenders needed to be rebuilt. I had that done ($650) and everything is fine now except my bank account. The clutch itself and the transmission are OK.

Hope this will be helpful to someone.

 

Another possible way to spin the pilot is if it wasn't installed all the way and the input shaft was jammed into it and spun it when it was first started. There's usually a good 1/4" clearance though between it and the splines on the input shaft.




I would not disassemble the interior to align the shifter. I tried using a machined piece like shown, but it still wasn't right. That would work perfectly for a new shifter, but the edges of the shift gates will wear unevenly, especially if it has been out of alignment for awhile.

You have to fine tune it by feel. When moving side to side, the shifter will want to snag some of the gates. If it's catching the front of a gate, you can move that gate forward by adjusting the shift rod backwards slightly. There is a gate between 1-3 and 2-4 I believe, that doesn't move, so you have to line them up with this first. Some of the gates are slightly wider than others.

If the bushings on the back of the shift rods are shot, aligning the shifter will be a waste of time.