9 Inch Ford Solid Rear Axle Conversion for C4
12-18-2006, 11:33 AM
#21
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Roughly 380,000 C4's I believe(I did the math once, but forgot the number)
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
So that leaves us with 95,000 potential cars of which we know some already have some type of conversion.
Even if 1% of those wanted to do the conversion, that's 950 cars. I think that's enough for a company to make a kit.
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
So that leaves us with 95,000 potential cars of which we know some already have some type of conversion.
Even if 1% of those wanted to do the conversion, that's 950 cars. I think that's enough for a company to make a kit.
You figure that some of the guys really hot rodding their cars have a D44 already and that will hold some real power. Heck, if you could guarantee NitrousSam 950 units to sell, even if it took 2 years, I am certain he and his fabricator would be all over it.
When you run the math as Mojo did, you really see that there is a legit market for some higher end performance parts for the C4s. As the car is priced now, many can afford to buy one with the intent of making it a nearly dedicated race car. Even those who wish to have a real street/strip car can swing it now - especially with how low cost a C4 is compared to an early Camaro/Nova.
12-18-2006, 11:50 AM
#22
Former Vendor
Nitrous,
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
12-18-2006, 01:35 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
Nitrous,
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
4 links can be adjusted a lot more than a ladder bar, every guy that i talked to said that short 4 links will work fine. mine are longer than the stockers by 2inches but i didn’t want to take the short cut plus i wanted to narrow the rear for extra strength and to save some weight. i also wanted to run a 12 inch wheel with a 29.5-10.5 w tire. The 12 bolt I have is bullet proof to how fast I want to go with the car. My goal is no faster than 8.0s . a 9inch is cool just for the fact that you can have few different gear set and change it to run on motor, nitrous, or just to cruise it. My car looks so pisst with all 4 wheels, the car sits so low I love it.
12-18-2006, 02:56 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Solid Rear Conversion
Nitrous,
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
Leo at neverlift has a bolt in solid rear for these cars. It utilizes the stock mounting points now for our tailing arms and essentially is a bolt in design.
The cost of the setup is arund 6500 dollars, which is not bad at all....that is competely installed.
Things I am not entire sure about, which is why I have not done mine yet is the length of the 4link bars is super short, well the same length as you have now. This limits your ability to adjust the instant center.
Insanity here just installed it in his car and is getting mid 1.3 60' time with corkys old 434 motor, which is about the same as mine, but they have not been able to dial it in for consistency - which is what I am waiting for.
Leo and I spoke on the phone many times about this setup and I had my concerns - which is why I did not want to be the guinne-pig for the project. Not in any way saying it will not work, but it will need to be fine tuned and throught someone in closer proximity to leo's shop would be a better canidate....hence chris's car(insanity). The setup is pretty slick, and straightforward and requires very little cutting of the car, so you could always go back if you wanted.
I am also 100% sure the 12 bolt will be more than enough for these car and power level. Dads 555 is running the stock 12 bolt and pulling low 1.3 60' 180 ft down the track on the rear wheels in a 3900-4000lb car!
A 9" I think would be overkill and weigh more than you need to put in the car. 12bolt with good components is SUPER strong.
My .02
Good information and I know Leo does amazing quality work and he is highly respected! Most people that I have spoke with on the forum would not be willing to pay $6,500 for the solid conversion even though it is a great value for what they would get. If we do this my car will be the test bed for the conversion so we would be 100% sure it would work, be safe and that it would be a true bolt in. The bolt in kit in my opinion is the only way this project will be able to get off the ground.
The purpose of this thread is only to determine if there is enough interest to justify going any further with this concept. I have been assured by dozens of forum members that if we or anyone else could deliver this the units would sell faster than we could build them. I still want more imput from others.
NitrousSam
12-18-2006, 03:22 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
If you decide to go for it, take big deposits on pre-orders so you can do a single "production run" with not much left over. A lot of "assurances" will evaporate when it comes time to write the check.
12-18-2006, 05:24 PM
#27
I am interested in doing a solid rear, as a matter of fact I'm going to do one that was my promise to myself a month be for etown closed. When you have an old gen I ( 350 ) S/B you really need to launch them pretty high to get them in the 11s and its like rolling the dice on whether the rear will stay together. and I want to be able to drive the car to the track and not think about am I going to break a rear. I actually called Currie and Moser about a rear, and Currie can make what ever you want but you need to give them the measurements and you have to tell them where you want the brackets welded on at. You need a panhard bar to keep the rear located and use some adjustable trailing arms and coilover shocks and you would elimenate the torque arm and use a crossmember to hold the transmission plus you might need to shorter the driveshaft. Unless you have a 12 bolt or a 9" or parts already laying around I can't see doing that job for under $3500 and that's just in parts not laber.
Randy
Randy
12-18-2006, 05:55 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I am interested in doing a solid rear, as a matter of fact I'm going to do one that was my promise to myself a month be for etown closed. When you have an old gen I ( 350 ) S/B you really need to launch them pretty high to get them in the 11s and its like rolling the dice on whether the rear will stay together. and I want to be able to drive the car to the track and not think about am I going to break a rear. I actually called Currie and Moser about a rear, and Currie can make what ever you want but you need to give them the measurements and you have to tell them where you want the brackets welded on at. You need a panhard bar to keep the rear located and use some adjustable trailing arms and coilover shocks and you would elimenate the torque arm and use a crossmember to hold the transmission plus you might need to shorter the driveshaft. Unless you have a 12 bolt or a 9" or parts already laying around I can't see doing that job for under $3500 and that's just in parts not laber.
Randy
Randy
I can relate to your comments for sure especially about driving the car to the track and not wanting to think about the drivetrain. The final cost of the project will determine if this goes very far or not.
Sam
12-18-2006, 05:58 PM
#30
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[QUOTE=Mr Mojo;1558146899]Roughly 380,000 C4's I believe(I did the math once, but forgot the number)
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
Most of the C4's in Texas that need the solid rear are already in the 25% trashed group. The others moved on to racing C5's.
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
Most of the C4's in Texas that need the solid rear are already in the 25% trashed group. The others moved on to racing C5's.
12-18-2006, 06:12 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
12-18-2006, 06:13 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Red Rocket;1558157462]
It sounds like we could find some affordable parts cars in Texas 
Roughly 380,000 C4's I believe(I did the math once, but forgot the number)
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
Most of the C4's in Texas that need the solid rear are already in the 25% trashed group. The others moved on to racing C5's.
Lets assume that 25% are trashed, 25% are garage queens. That leaves us with 50% that are candidates, but, how many of those are roadracer/autocrossers? At least half if not more.
Most of the C4's in Texas that need the solid rear are already in the 25% trashed group. The others moved on to racing C5's.
12-18-2006, 06:15 PM
#33
Former Vendor
I am interested in doing a solid rear, as a matter of fact I'm going to do one that was my promise to myself a month be for etown closed. When you have an old gen I ( 350 ) S/B you really need to launch them pretty high to get them in the 11s and its like rolling the dice on whether the rear will stay together. and I want to be able to drive the car to the track and not think about am I going to break a rear. I actually called Currie and Moser about a rear, and Currie can make what ever you want but you need to give them the measurements and you have to tell them where you want the brackets welded on at. You need a panhard bar to keep the rear located and use some adjustable trailing arms and coilover shocks and you would elimenate the torque arm and use a crossmember to hold the transmission plus you might need to shorter the driveshaft. Unless you have a 12 bolt or a 9" or parts already laying around I can't see doing that job for under $3500 and that's just in parts not laber.
Randy
Randy
There are a lot of things involved and need to be taken into consideration.....your exhaust will need to be reworked/re-routed.......
Been mulling over this for quite some time.....Be sure also that whatever rear you go with you get C-clip eliminators and good axles. C-clips will be required for safety and compliance at the track. My Dad had to up the size of his axles after we snapped a set off this season and the axles and c-clips were 780 dollars for a 12 bolt! Ouch!
My biggest concern still remains with the length of the 4 link bars....they are super short. Hooked up probably has the BEST setup, but his is a complete 1/2 back with the way he did his. And it flat out WORKS! 1.28 60' times speak volumes from a smaller inch motor than mine.
I would say your going to have about 5000 dollars MINIMUM in just the items required to put the setup together.....that is with no labor or anything.
12-18-2006, 09:31 PM
#34
Safety Car
This sounds like a great project and I am sure there will be lots of customers.
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
12-18-2006, 09:41 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
This sounds like a great project and I am sure there will be lots of customers.
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
That is a nice value and I am sure it was an excellent rear end.
12-18-2006, 11:40 PM
#36
Advanced
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I would look into the ford 8.8's.They will hold up to anything that any of these cars will put down.
Hell the one in my mustang gets 7600 rpm clutch drops on full slicks w/10 psi in them(stock axles w/ c-lip eliminators. you can get 31 spline axles and the c-clip eliminators are only 375.00
they are light.the parts are cheap and they are readily available.
thats just my thoughts though.
Hell the one in my mustang gets 7600 rpm clutch drops on full slicks w/10 psi in them(stock axles w/ c-lip eliminators. you can get 31 spline axles and the c-clip eliminators are only 375.00
they are light.the parts are cheap and they are readily available.
thats just my thoughts though.
Last edited by lucky85; 12-18-2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason: more info
12-19-2006, 06:46 AM
#37
This sounds like a great project and I am sure there will be lots of customers.
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
BTW, I ran a Currie Built Ford 9" in my Irocz setup a few years ago.
This entire rear was a bolton for the F-body. Detroit locker with 3.73's in the center section. The cost was about $2000 delivered to my door.
Vic
That is the same rear that that guys are using in the conversion, I'm not sure about the length though. they add brackets ontop for the upper trailing arms and one in the back for a panhard bar.
Randy
12-19-2006, 08:10 AM
#38
Race Director
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
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There are a lot of things involved and need to be taken into consideration.....your exhaust will need to be reworked/re-routed.......
Been mulling over this for quite some time.....Be sure also that whatever rear you go with you get C-clip eliminators and good axles. C-clips will be required for safety and compliance at the track. My Dad had to up the size of his axles after we snapped a set off this season and the axles and c-clips were 780 dollars for a 12 bolt!
Been mulling over this for quite some time.....Be sure also that whatever rear you go with you get C-clip eliminators and good axles. C-clips will be required for safety and compliance at the track. My Dad had to up the size of his axles after we snapped a set off this season and the axles and c-clips were 780 dollars for a 12 bolt!
As for C-clip elims . . . another pro of the 9-inch along with the ease of changing rear gears if you so choose.
12-19-2006, 09:41 AM
#40
Instructor
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A bolt in 9" would be way cool. It would help open the rest of the hot rod market to the C4. I imagine there are a lot of people holding back what they would like to do because there is no affordable option for the "weak link" in the system. I'm an auto guy with a d36 but when it comes down to time to replace the rear, I'd pay a premium for drop in 9".
I used to run an old 340 cuda with the similar setup 8 3/4 rearend. It took 30 minutes for two people to swap to 5:13 gears for weekends and 3:91 or 3:23 for most of the week. Swapping the center section became about as routine as changing spark plugs after you did it 3-4 times. The benefits are enormous for the 9".
I used to run an old 340 cuda with the similar setup 8 3/4 rearend. It took 30 minutes for two people to swap to 5:13 gears for weekends and 3:91 or 3:23 for most of the week. Swapping the center section became about as routine as changing spark plugs after you did it 3-4 times. The benefits are enormous for the 9".