No but we plowed the lot out. Car moved about 10 feet then I hit ice. pulled it back in, and started taking it apart again. The setup works fine driving it on the lift. I can't imagine anyone would run into a problem on the street.

-- Joe

 

OK well.. I dont get it. Dont people put the zf6 with the standared L-98 motor all the time, The L-98 also comes with a 700r4. and I have one in my car now with the zz4?. and the car That the ZR1 transmission came out of was a show car with a 502 create motor. ITs a black tag transmission. IS there any way i can put this tranny to my ZZ4? And if so do you think the drive shaft was changed for the 4+3 to 700R4 swap that was done or is it the same?

 

Just because its a black tag doesn't make it a ZR-1 ZF. A ZR-1 trans can be used on a small block, but the shifter is going to be 1" further. GM used the longer input shaft for the ZR because the ZR motor was 1" shorter than the standard SBC. The bellhousing for a ZR-1 is also longer for the spacing. So there are 2 versions of the ZF-6 for the C4. You need the version for the regular 89-96 C4s, not the ZR-1. I put a black tag in my 84 so I have some experience with this.
Either that or replace the input shaft.

 

Ok well I thought the ZR1 ZF 6-speed was black and the others were blue for the standard C4s. but I guess some early models had the black ones as well thanks for letting me know.. Anyway I was told this was from a ZR1.. I found this tranny when, I was looking for Zf-6 speeds on the net. Well what do you know. the next week I go to my friends fathers body shop and the guy has one sitting on his shelf in his shop. and I was like {wow is that not a a ZF 6 speed out of a corvette?} and he said he thought it was from a ZR1 corvette and he had it in his chevy 2 with a 502. He did not like how close the gears were in the ZF and the 6th gear was useless with his set up and gears. and he is putting in a richmond instead. anyway He sold it to me for 400 bucks! I think mostley becuse hes my friends father and He dosnt like seeing muscle cars not on the road lol. Well I know I got a sick deal On the ZF? but now to figer out if its a ZR1 or reguler one. The tranny is pantied ferrari red like his chevy 2. But I will try to take a picture of it or somthing? It looks the same as the other ZF 6 speeds I have found? in the mean time is there a way I can tell by messuring the shaft?

 

Phat,

Go to this website, www.zfdoc.com. Bill Boudreau is very good and very helpful. He knows ZFs like the back of his hand and should be able to give you the info you need.

 

The last picture of the shifter does not show up. Great job and thanks for blazing the trail. Never know when my 4+3 will die.

 

Hey Anesth you are a beast....I will be using your tutorial and doing the swap on my 90....Any pitfals because of the difference in year???

Hope you can drive it soon

 

I don't see any issue on a 90. I assume we're talking A4 to T5 swap.

Good luck and let me know how it works out.

-- Joe

 

I love the robust nature of this swap , I really do. Its exciting to see a group of people all chip in and try to make something work. As most know here I've rebuilt the 4+3 for years, sold parts to GM for these, was a rebuilder for GM and dealerships many years and sold my tooling and hard parts to Brian of SK speed years ago.

The warning is the following: The 4+3 transmission assembly was prone to cracking the mid section bearing plate on the bottom due to case flex imparted by loads of the C-Beam.

Not to burst anyone's bubble here, but you should be concerned about the loads you are expecting these very thin T5 tails to take. What I would worry about is the shift rail binding due to flex as well as the rear bushing wiping out due to case flex.

You may want to secure the mount pad to something else to make your flex path shorter. Don't forget that Camaro T5 had a mount to the frame having the T5 float on the back could be a potential problem. Most of the time when that gimmick is tried out you will find the upper ears where the tail attaches to the case snap.

Carry on.

Paul
www.5speeds.com

 

Paul,

Very interesting. And you bring up some great points. So I would imagine that the ZF was built with those issues taken into consideration. Correct?

 

You think the 700R4 was built that way too?

-- Joe

 

I'd be similarly curious to know if Keisler beefed up the tailshaft of their TKO swap. They rate the tranny at 500+ hp and I know there are guys on this board who thrash theirs pretty hard. The tailshaft appears to be stock TKO with an offset shifter. In fact, the bolt-on cover the TKO tailshaft has ought to make it rather weak in that area.

Atleast the T5 was designed, in some aspect, to have a mount at the tailshaft. In a Camaro, the T5 tailshaft mount takes much the same twisting force as in the C4.

In my car, which will soon have a T5, I have poly engine mounts and poly diff bushings. The amount of twist should be atleast somewhat limited in this respect. I would think the force required to twist and deform the T5 tailshaft would first break my D36 rear. I suppose time will tell...

 

Same thing, but I tell you. The keisler shifter is pretty trick!

Well the fbody case was. You can see by the webbing and such that it's meant to handle some rear loads. I mean, you have a hopped up thirdgen and you launch with slicks and a LOT of energy pushes up on that tailshaft. I've broken tons of trans mounts over the years.

the Cbeam adapter pro street made (as you now know) bolts up in numerous spots, rather than loading just the very tail of the transmission. I think it should be fine. If you have enough power to brake T5 cases, then do one of the following:

1) Buy a few spare tail shafts
2) Consider a different transmission.

Thats my 2 cents on that issue.

My cbeam is twisted to crap on my '87. I think you will be fine. And T5's are cheap. Just don't miss third gear

-- Joe

 

Well, you are one of the trans experts 'round here Joe. I do have the power to destroy a T5 in my car (383 @ ~425 horses). Thing is, I don't race (can't afford the broken parts) and I figure as long as I keep street tires on the car I'll break traction long before I break a tranny. Not really worried either. I am curious, though, what twisted enough to allow you to break a T5 mount (soft motor mounts, driveshaft bottoming out in the yoke, etc?).

 

I'm no trans expert. Theres just some things I like about cars more than others. Infact, I'm not an expert in anything. I grew up in a shop/dealership doing cars, got sick of it. Did computer engineering for almost 10 years, got sick of it. Doing police stuff for 5 now.


I wish I dynoed my 355 before I stripped the car. Thing trapped 119-120mph every pass in the 1/4, with 1.60-1.70 60 foot times. 3650 lbs with me in it. That HAD to be near 500hp. Never broke a T5 racing it.

Anyhow, the thirdgen rear end has two lower control arms on the bottom, two coil springs, a panhard bar and a torque arm. The torque arm is the only thing that keeps the rear end from rotating since there is no upper control arms. It's like a third member, or a 3-link. hah. Anyway, when you give it gas, the arm pushes up on the transmission; when you downshift, the rear end attempts to rotate downward and pulls on the tailshaft.

So if you hit it hard enough, the torque arm will lift on the transmission ripping the mount in two, and the transmission then hits the floor and scares the crap out of the driver if it's the first time. The torque arm is not bolted directly to the tailshaft, instead a torque arm mount is bolted to the tailshaft, and the torque arm fits through a rubber coupling in the mount. This allows the torque arm to move a little with the suspension travel (since its a live axle, not fixed like a C4).

-- Joe

 

I get it. So, in a way, the C4 might actually be a bit less stressful on a T5 tailshaft than an FBody?

 

With the only disclaimer that I do not have a masters in mechanical engineering, yes I think so.

-- Joe

 

Actually Joe, I have a degree in mechanical engineering

 

Eh, then you should know more than me!

-- Joe

 

The ZF is MASSIVE compared to the T5 and rock solid.