Absolutely, you are paying them to learn on your car.

They are throwing parts at it instead of diagnosing it, and surely overcharging you. Injectors can be checked, coils can be checked, cap/rotor are dirt cheap. It seems you're giving them the benefit of the doubt and feel at their mercy because they know more about the car than you (but not enough to find the problem.)

Would you write a stranger a blank check?


ALWAYS demand your original parts back, this is one of your rights as a consumer. Oftentimes in the process of their guessowrk, good oem parts get replaced by lower quality aftermarket stuff.


Start a new thread with your issues and what work has been done so far, and you'll get pointed in the right direction. There may even be a forum member close by willing to help you out.

 

BTW an ignition coil (or any type of coil, like a starter solenoid) can pass fine cold but begin failing when hot, so don't put any faith in a coil test at your local parts store.

 

CFI-EFI hit the nail on the head.

Swapping in the known good distributor I borrowed changed nothing. So that ruled out anything within the dist right off the bat and saved me time.

Long story short, I used the timing **** on the back of my inductive timing light to help determine the exact difference in degrees from the actual true TDC to what the TDC mark of the damper was telling me, after I did a physically TDC reset of the dist. So this means that when I set the timing with the damper mark at the factory 6 degrees BTDC, it was actually not there. The timing was way over advanced. The computer was then over correting, hence the chitty idle with EST plugged in only.


So now I have backed my timing mark those same degrees and all is well with EST plugged or unplugged, even though the damper mark is reading incorrectly.

So to those other guys who's car is doing the same and have tried everything else, there you have it. Check your damper mark for slippage. You can use a TDC piston stop, and then see if the mark on your damper is telling you the truth.

Now I have a small dilemma. Should I buy and replace the damper now, or just rub out the TDC mark, and add my own new corrected line to get me by smog? I pressed white toothpaste onto the notch to make it visible, but I can remove it again. Damn thing was invisible before I used toothpaste. I'm due next month. This was the only thing holding me back and I don't feel like changing out a damper right now.

I want to thank Paul (89 Paul In Cal) for lending me his dist. Thanks man.

 

replace that damper, it's not done moving

 

Cool. I'm glad I could help. As I read through some of the suggestions in this thread about the various ECMs, their characteristics, etc, I am reminded of an old saying. "When you hear hoof beats (on this continent, at least) think horses...Not zebras." Go for the obvious and most common causes. Of course, while the possibilities are endless, it pays to check out the most common possible causes. If checking the easy doesn't pan out, then it's time to start the snipe hunt. I'm glad you found the problem, and that the trouble shooting was so economical.



Is checking your timing a part of your smog test? Regardless, change it ASAP. You are driving around with a live hand grenade under your hood and the pin has been pulled. The outer ring has moved. Where it will go next, is any body's guess and YOUR gamble. It could slide to the rear and rub a hole in your timing cover or it could walk off the front and launch in any one of 360°. I don't think I have to name all the targets in that 360°s that could get wiped out. One that comes to mind, however is the opening for your unplanned, functional, hood scoop.

RACE ON!!!

 

Yes, they check the timing. If they find it off, you can either take it home to adjust yourself, fail, and have to retest. Or pay them $45 or so dollars just to adjust it with a timing gun on the spot. New damper $144.10 from GM. I was expecting it to be a lot higher. Never shopped for one of these before. Is there a better deal elsewhere?

TLD $119. After shipping it's probably close to the same. GM can have to for me in 1-2 days from L.A. free ship.

 

Everywhere! I just helped a friend shop for one for his 1978 El Camino, 350. Although it is a different damper, the ones for his car ranged from under $50.00 to over $100.00. Check out Rock Auto, Checker Auto Parts, and Auto Zone, plus any other local favorites you may have.

RACE ON!!!

 

Damn you're right.

Kragen has a Proform for $75 and a Dorman for $48. Never heard of Dorman.

Autozone has a Pioneer brand for $61. Another brand I'm not familiar with.

Are these brands any good? Is it worth the savings over an OEM peice?

 

Rockauto can ship one to you for less than that, and you don't even have to get off yer ***.

I painted mine black and painted the mark silver to make it more readable.

 

Dorman is a famous old name known for common automotive hardware, brake hardware, etc. I think they are the parent company behind "Help" parts. Pioneer is also a huge, general, line of parts. I wouldn't be afraid of either. I've heard of Proform, but I have no experience with them. My general impression is that it isn't top of the line quality. Between the money and the name, I'd pick the Dorman, all else being equal. If it weren't for the price I'd say the Pioneer is a toss up with the Dorman.

RACE ON!!!

 

Dorman has their name on everything. Basically a poor man's AC-Delco. (Not to imply AC Delco is anything special either.)

 

Rock Auto carries an ATP for $46.

Kevin, which one did you buy? Did you borrow the puller from Autozone?

 

I bought a crows foot puller for it, Autozone will rent it too.

Make sure to slip a metal sleeve of some sort over the acme threads on the tool, as it comes very close to the steering rack line and can chew it up.


And whatever you do, DON'T use the crank threads to pull the balancer on. There is a seperate tool for installing the hub, (autozone probably doesn't have it) you can make one with some washers, nuts and threaded rod. Basically you bottom out the shaft in the crank threads, then hold it still with jam nuts while turning a nut+washer on it to push the balancer into place.

 

I ordered the ATP one from Rock Auto. $55 shipped. Not bad.

 

Never heard of ATP. Why didn't you get the Dorman?

 

I've been using fluid dampers for years. Though when I bought the vette, the motor that was in it had a spun damper. (and a spun damper on the driveshaft too).. It's normally the first thing I replace when I build a race engine so I haven't had the opportunity to see one fail in action.

-- Joe

 

Well, I cancelled the order beacause I've realized that I am very close to my smog due date. Instead, I'm about to go pick up the Dorman peice from Autozone, as well as borrow their puller. Then to the hardware store to peice together an installer tool as CC mentioned. I'll just take my crank bolt with me to the store for the threads.

Any tips or techniques to keep the crank stationary while you undo the pulley bolts? Press on the sepentine belt? I know I can get the crank bolt by jerking the ratchet. It's the other one's I've never removed before.

 

Pulley bolts should be easy (just hold the pulley itself). Moreover when you remove the dampner the crank will try to move. For either you can get a spanner type wrench that will hold the crank by means of the teeth on the converter or flywheel. When you pull the dampner you can put a BIG screwdriver in between the bolts on the puller.(make sure puller bolts are of good quality

 

Old damper is off. It's totally f**ked.









Note how far apart the timing marks are between the two. Both dampers are laid one on top of the other, on the same side, and both woodruff key slots lined up.

Trying to hold the crank pulley stationary by hand or belt wasn't happening. So I wedged the flywheel by one of it's bolts onto the exhaust with a wrench. When I needed to hold it from turning the opposite direction, I just put the wrench under the pipe, instead of over it. It worked.



I'll put the new damper in tomorrow.

I appreciate everyone's input.

 

they both were probably both sourced from the same plant in China, Korea, or Mexico, so the brand name matters little...

the quality of these dampers can be questionable at times. verify that the timing mark is properly indexed.

some of the off brand import dampers are ok, and some are disasters waiting to happen.

i`ve seen one grenade the outer ring at under 5K rpm, one that the ring slipped off the rubber. both less than a month old...

one a friend of mine installed, the pulley bolt threads stripped out, before acceptable torque was reached.
the bolts were started, and ran down by hand, so no cross threading was involved.. just too soft iron...