That's just it engine never floods...no gas is getting in (no fumes either) injectors are not firing (there must be low voltage or weak ground in the circuit).

All injector Ohm out OK. There are no leaking injectors: since the fuel rail pressure stays up.

When I use the actron tester to manually fire the injectors gas: everthing works fine -- gas is injected into the cylinder and if I fire them all manually I can start the engine mometarily(4-6 seconds) since gas is puddling in the cylinder heads and cylinders.

 

observation #1
the first thing I think you have to do now is determine that the gas that you are getting isn't contaminated with water.
You state that it was out in a rain storm, and that it started up and idled then died.
IMHO,
you ran the gas out of the fuel line and fuel rails, and now replaced it with water. If you spray it with ether, it runs, everything points to a fuel that is not ignitable.
you have fuel rail pressure,
you have spark
you have air

my question, what is coming out of the clear plastic hose on your fuel pressure gauge? water? or gas?

the only other thing I can concude is that you have to pull the left rocker cover, put the timing mark on TDC, pull the distributor cap and determine that the rotor points to #1, and that the #1 rockers are loose meaning it is on TDC, ready to fire.
The four things that are possible;
1. the timing jumped at the chain
2. the distributor shaft gear has the wrong gear on it and wore out the cam gear.
3. The distributor hold down bolt has somehow loosened up and the dist. rotated, and it won't fire the proper cyl.
4. you have a cracked distributor cap, and the spark jumps all over.
observation #2
I watched your video, and it seems that the engine is out of time. it hesitates on the starter like the timing is too far advanced.
Of course it could be a worn out battery from trying to get this thing started, but it sounds like the timing is off.
observation #3
if everything is right, you have to determine at the wiring harness that there's a ground. If you pull the left injector harness cover off, you will see where the grounds from both sides of the engine injectors are tied (crimped ) together at the back of the engine. this should have an additonal crimped wire that bolts to the back of the left head.

 

Why not disconect all of your sensors and see if she'll start on the MEMCAL instead? Or disconnect one at a time and see if she'll start. Then, if it starts with one of the sensors disconnected then you will know wich sensor is bad.

 

I've spent the last few days taking voltage reading from the back of the ECM harness.....I see a problem!

This took a while since I didn't know what the '89 pin out voltages should be....but I got them thanks to cross referencing many books the people of this forum (my own copy of an '89 Helms Industries book would have really helped).

Below are images of the readings I took. The reading boxed in yellow is the problem!





The reading on B12 (dark green wire circuit 998) is too low. It is 30mv!
I unplugged the MAF sensor and the voltage shot up to 5v (it is supposed to do this!). I Ohmed the wire with the ECM & MAF unhooked and it reads infinity to ground(which is good). I plugged MAF back in and its 30mv again! The 30mv is a problem - since it should be 2.5 v (after the fuel pump's relay drops out with the key "on" and engine not running).

Here's the deal with the 30mv - the car is tricked into thinking its running already! I always have power to Pin "E" on the MAF sensor when the key is "on"..... thus a low 30mv resistance signal is generated and the fuel injector pulse width per second is reduced to a mear nothing (injectors are not firing or are barely firing). With everything hooked up and the car already running the MAF voltage should be 250mv or less.

I suspect a relay or relays (MAF Burn-off, MAF Power or Fuel Pump relay) is staying engaged(shorted) completing the circuit.

The MAF circuit:

 

Scratch that "always power to pin "E" on the MAF sensor harness"
I probed all the wires on the fuel pump, MAF burn-off and MAF Power with the key in the "on" and "off" position. All relays operate as they should (they are all OK). I'm still only getting the 30 mv on "C" or the harness with the sensor plugged in and the fuel pump relay jumped ( battery + to term "G" of the ALCL). So I un-hooked the MAF sensor and installed the original MAF(I replaced it in step one in the first post #1) and checked the voltage on PIN "C" again. The senor I had installed was bad! The old sensor is showing 2.4 volts which is what it should be! The sensor I used to replace the old one with was "new in the box" Micro-Tech part #49-1018. I'm pi$$ed now!

 

With the "old" / "working" MAF installed once again ( correct voltage is now shown at the ECM) the car - still will not start. The fuel injectors still are not pulsing when the car is cranked even though the actron 3 shows a flashing LEDs.

No pulse width per mil. second shows up here during cranking:

 

deleted

 

I've got spark.
I've got fuel.
The car will fire with starting fluid and run for a while. It starts to develop a miss (dead cylinder) and stalls.
I've got fuel at the schrader valve.
I have 1999 camaro fuel injectors installed (28 lb).
The car came with an ADS Superchip.

I'm going to look at the mass air flow sensor tomorrow, clean, and even try to start without connected.

I've tried new...
plugs
wires
cap
rotor
ecu

I have no error codes

My car is at a body shop ready for paint and they can't get it into the spray booth unless its running!

 

Does the tester show engine rpm while cranking?

 

The unit does have a line that shows the engine RPM(screen on the unit must scrolled down to see it) on it but it also reads 0 while cranking the engine.

I'm going to re-read the owner's manual tonight to see if there is a delay or a min. value that must register/met before the values are displayed. This unit is about 10 years old - I've only used it 3 or four times in the past and it worked great! I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the unit because it has a self-testing feature built into it and it says " self-test passed" every time.

It seems like the ECM is showing one thing but really doing something else. This is strange! The unit also has a line for the HEI ESC counter that reads 0 when cranking as well.

Anybody know if Cal-packs go bad?

 

Sorry to hear it - but welcome to the no start club!

I'm not sure the car will start with the MAF sensor unplugged. I've been through 3 Bosch MAF sensors in the last 10 years(not counting the one that was bad out of the box). The only 1 of these times was I was able to get the car started into "limp mode." It started only because the car was already up to temperature. The other 2 times I could crank the crap out of it but it would never start. If you need help with the MAF test let me know - I've got it down pat now.

These MAF sensors are big bucks!!! I bought the "new' Micro-tech MAF sensor because it has a life-time warranty on it so if it goes bad I just return it for a new one (I had the receipt framed) - I called Micro-tech over the phone on Friday and they said that it sounds like the new unit was the right one for the car.

 

Here's what the Helms manual says for a no start.

The engine will not start without reference pulses and therefore the Scan should read engine rpm (reference) during crank.

Then they go to a trouble shooting chart.
Do you have spark YES
Ignition off
Disconnect Distributor 4 way connector.
Ignition On.
Momentarily touch Harness Connector Terminal Circuit 430 Purple/White wire with a Test Light to 12 volts.
Scan should indicate RPM when test is performed.

No RPM indicates faulty connection or ignition module (you already replaced it).

Yes RPM, Circuit 430 open, shorted to ground or Faulty ECM.

An indication that the ECM does see RPM while cranking, is it will close the fuel pump relay and open the relay if cranking stops and no reference pulses.

Yes the Eprom could be corrupt.

 

My God I do need the Helm's book for this car....I just hate to drop $100+ dollars on it though! But it seems mandatory - at this point.

OK I've re-read the hand book for the Actron computer tester. It makes a point that the information on the screen is "real time" this is what the computer sees.

Anybody got an extra Calpack (one which works) for an '89?

 

I watch your video.
It sounds like the battery has a bad cell, I think you have less an 10 V when cranking.
Your scanner stop and starts again, fuel pressure meter needle jumps in sync whit
the starter .
Electronics are extreme sensitive for low voltage.
Have you test another battery?


Or you have a voltage drop somewhere.

Measure when you cranking.
Multimeter in milliVolt mode:

Between negative battery terminal and chassis?

Between negative battery terminal and engine?

Between chassis and engine?

Between batteri/engine/chassi and ground at ECM ?

Should be less and 100 mV I think.


Have you access to an oscilloscope?
Would be interesting to see signal over injectors.


Kjell

 

I hear what your saying. I've done a through checks for stray voltages that might cause issues such as these - I think its between 100mv and 500mv to allow for ground bounce due to the coupling of analog and digital grounds.

In the video the car battery was very low....but I had it hooked up a jump pack (only produces 450 cranking amps)when I was cranking it. Since that time I've fully charged the battery and checked it with my battery load tester...it tests "good".

True - the starter pulls such high amperage it drags down the scanner unit but I don't think this amp draw is the cause of the fuel pressure gage's minor bumps in pressure (more than likely a low fuel injector pulse)....since the fuel relay never drops out until 2 seconds after the motor has stopped cranking. Note: the fuel rail pressure has been tested - after the pump's relay drops out it takes about 20 seconds for the fuel rail pressure to begin to fall. When it does begin to fall and it never falls below 38 psi even after 5 min.

So I've been using another car to jump start the "I think I can't-I think I can't" vette while only plugging the ECM scanner into the stand alone jump pack to avoid the unit from being drug down. Note: the jump pack negative terminal is grounded to the car during testing.

Yeah-you and me both....an "O" scope would bring this mystery pulse out in the open!

Thanks for the input -- your very perceptive!

 

You should also check to see if there is a MAF signal voltage change when you crank the engine over and compare it with voltage reading when key on, engine off. If there is no difference or very little change in signal voltage, you probably have a massive air leak in the intake plenum. You should also check for vacuum leaks. It is also possible that the IAC valve is fully open, causing such a leak, therefore check proper operation of IAC valve.

Will

 

Hey thanks Will,

MAF circuit is good with the "old" MAF back in and with scanner installed to ECM the MAF reads 4384 GR/Per second with + power attached to term "G" on teh ALCL. If I remove the MAF and blow into it the value changes....this confirms its working! I've also checked it while the car is cranking and it changes reading just fine when air is drawn past the sensor by the suction of the engine....this confirms now massive plentum leaks....no need to follow up on the IAC...besides I've already checked it several times - its operating just fine.

Thanks for the imput though -
I've just done Hooked on Vetts's test and he is onto something with the whole RPM thing!

 

OK - I've conducted your little test exaclty and the results are in: No, negative or negatory! No RPM indacated on the scanner! But get this: I can hear the fuel pump relay click (enage) when it touch the wire with the 12 volts...how strange is that?

"No RPM indicates faulty connection or ignition module (you already replaced it)." Here's the rub - know this thing is good, pulsing, connected well and ungrounded all the way the ECM!

I also found this little tid bit of info last night when I was reading the ACTRON scanner manual it reads:
"The memory and calibration unit is a removable part of the ECM. MEMCAL contains a 27C256 ROM, PROM, or EPROM. It also houses back-up fuel control system which consists of an IC and some analog circuitry." It seems that perhaps the cal-pack "back -up system" is what is generating these "mystery pulses" we see on the harness going to the injectors.

This overall "problem" is leading me back full circle to the ECU. I bought this "re-manufactuered/new in the box" ECU at the same place that sold me the BAD "new in the box" MAF sensor. Advance Auto and I are going to have a little talk tomorrow.

 

They probably gave u the wrong ECM. Make sure u get the correct part for your make of vehicle. GM used the same (basicly) ECM for all there fuel injected vehicles up to '95. Remember that some D12 pins with MAP sensors are ground and those with MAF are heat wire burn off. Why not find the correct program to download from the web and burn it on an EPROM chip, install it and, hopefully then your car will work. Personally, I would go to the scrap yard and get a MAF ECM from a GM vehicle (anything from 85 to 89 Corvette/Camaro and GM Trucks/Vans of the same era that have MAF, not MAP) burn the correct program to EPROM chip and install it in your car. Just a thought.

Will

 

This very well could be the wrong ECU. I've got a "corvette shop" around here the buys up busted / totaled vettes I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if the have and old computer with a cal-pack already installed in it. However I think I'll pull the 4 pin harness out of the distributor and see if these wires are broken internal in the AM. "Faulty connection or ignition module." I never did ohm this mini harness thing out!