Guys I may be able to put another little touch on the thread to give some assistance in your search of the solution.

My car has had poor brakes for some time, but it also has had some big motors which I always contributed the poor brakes at idle to low vacuum. At speed like stopping at the end of the track, the car always feels like it grabs pretty good.

Well this winter after doing my solid rear swap I removed the ABS, and also the power brake booster to make the car have manual brakes. I needed to be able to hold the car better at the line to get the Rs up and thought this would help.

I removed the ABS and ran all new lines to the rear and tied into the fronts. After doing this the friggin brakes were no better. We did this to my fathers chevelle that had power brakes before and a big motor and it was like NIGHT AND DAY to the better. Figured I would have similiar results. Nope.

I then removed the brake peddle assembly (a fun job ) and moved my pivot point to give me a BUNCH more leverage...more than most everything you read says you need - the car held better at the line...but not much better - NOTHING like some of the cars you drive nowdays with much smaller brakes. My wifes new van will throw you through the windshield if you even think about using the brakes aggressively. As others have said - its a shame the general has put such ****ty brakes on these cars.

My next move is to put a new STRANGE mastercylinder on the car and see what that does. I can't imagine it should not work better and perhaps my cylinder is just bad................the only other thing is could be at that point are the calipers themselves.

I have thought about areospace brakes for mine, but 600 beans is a lot to spend if they do not work any better.

So in my case my booster is gone, the ABS is gone and the brakes still suck compared to what you would expect. They are better than they were before....but again nothing that you can write home about. As far as I know the MC is the stock original - so maybe its leaking or something.

I will let you know as I plan to order one shortly.

 

.....your arguement and opinion is well taken.....one of the first 10 things i did was to check the vacuum and it was high and fine (like i like my women! ) so, it is not that as it pertains to my 88....

....there was a guy a few months back that, because he had a modified engine, i gave him plans for a "home made" vacuum resovoir to compensate for his low vacuum. however, he didn't have any luck either...

.....anyone ever talk to anyone at the factory (or killebrew) and find out if the brakes on the c-4's (non j55's) are designed to suck directly from the factory or if they are designed to suck after a certain amount of time passes such as the phrase "planned obsolensence" but "planned crappy brakes"?....

 

You are probably right...Just like their crappy clutch hydraulics and barely adequate cooling system. As one poster said I think either 1) Something (master) is undersized or 2) There is a high level of defective brake hardware just like the cluch hydraulics.

You either got a good one or a bad one. Im determined to beat this thing. My 89 with smaller brakes stopped on a dime with hardly any effort and these J55s blow chunks...For now.

 

........

 

.......ttt

 

Hey That'd be me! No mods...great brakes.

 

......my brakes still suck with a capital "s"!.....

 

Could you explain a little bit on this modification? I would like to try it but I do not have a complete understanding on how it is done and what are the real goals for it.

It might sound crazy but I am throwing out almost all the inexpensive ( C5 brakes) modifications I can to see if I can improve the situation.

I just can't believe that a true sports car was designed so bad, or maybe when these cars were new they worked out perfectly. After all, I am dealing with a 94 Vette, some time has passed since the car left Bowling Green.

 

...what is your vacuum at idle?...

 

Well.....

Bled the master about an hour ago on the car, got a set of both netric and standard line wrenches from Harbor friehgt ($15 total)..

Had a freind pump the brakes while I broke the line coming off the master (remove the brake sensor wire). Shut them before they quit flowing....DId that a handful of times.

And drove it.

And...

It stops. It has a pedal. A good one. That doesnt sink


I may give it one more go next week and make my way arond each bleeder screw just to do it and get a little more, but damn, what a difference!!

 

You can use a piece of hose to bleed brakes by yourself. Crack the bleeder on the wheel, start at the farthest wheel, put the hose (make sure you buy hose that fits the bleeder tightly) on the bleeder valve, stick the hose in a 1/2 full can of brake fluid, pump brakes 5 or 6 times, check M/C, add as needed, check your can of brake fluid to make sure it didn't overflow, empty as needed. Repeat until you feel you've gotten all the air out.
This way works great for a 1 man job. I did it myself today on my Camino in between being harassed by 88z51.

I didn't read this whole thread but figured I'd give a quick 1 person brake bleeding tip.

 

I put the speedbleeders in--You gotta get those, 5 minute 1 man job with no mess.

 

My hose cost me $.56 today. How much are speedbleeders?

 

more

 

$.58?

 

x 50 or so...

 

...any further information as to why the c-4 (non-j55) brakes $uck so badly?......if all the components remain the same with only the substitution of 13'' brakes from the 12'' brakes and a larger caliper, i am just a little surprised to find that they make such a difference for the minimal size increase other then it being a certain percentage over stock.....a few members have said that their brakes are fine and stop on a dime (or maybe a quarter) but the rest of us have fred flintstone brakes......what is the common denominator in all this that make the brakes soooo damnnnn baaaddd?....

 

Well as mentioned before I eliminated a bunch of the components that others were saying might have been the cause....like the ABS unit and still my brakes are not that great.

I am going to be ordering this week a wilwood master cylinder and will let you all know how that works out.

It may be that everyone is replacing the "bad" or misengineered pieces with the same pieces again. ie master cylinders.

Perhaps if I get a wilwood mc it may be better and solve the problem.

Anyone know what piston size I should get. I was going to call wilwood today if I get the chance and see what they recommend.

 

Jesse, I would check with Wilwood for confirmation but I'll bet they suggest a 1 1/8 in. bore master cylinder. Without going into a long explanation of the brakes on my Pro Street car I had, that is what I had to do to get good brakes on it.

 

....point well taken but, i wouldn't think that gm would let their cars leave teh factory with fred flintstone brakes...