Clutch problem...
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Decatur Georgia
Clutch problem...
So when i bought my car it had a bit of an issue with what we believed to be the clutch slave cylinder. basically you had to push the pedal down as far as possible to be able to change gears. i ordered the slave and master cylinder to go ahead and change them both now.
i installed the new parts today (which should've been a lot easier than it was - thanks GM.... great place for a brake booster!) :greengrin
After installation, i used a mighty vac to pull fluid through the system. after the first vat of fluid everything was going find and pressure was ever so slightly beginning to build in the pedal.
after a few more shots of fluid pulled through i figure its gotta be about ready so i go to see how the pedal is feeling... its hard as a freakin rock! i pressed it down - straining - and fluid just leaked out from the hose connection. now i know i shouldve used new crush washers so im going to fix that... but does anyone know why my pedal would be so hard to press in???
Thanks in advance and be gentle... i am a newbie.
edit - new problem - read post 6.
i installed the new parts today (which should've been a lot easier than it was - thanks GM.... great place for a brake booster!) :greengrin
After installation, i used a mighty vac to pull fluid through the system. after the first vat of fluid everything was going find and pressure was ever so slightly beginning to build in the pedal.
after a few more shots of fluid pulled through i figure its gotta be about ready so i go to see how the pedal is feeling... its hard as a freakin rock! i pressed it down - straining - and fluid just leaked out from the hose connection. now i know i shouldve used new crush washers so im going to fix that... but does anyone know why my pedal would be so hard to press in???
Thanks in advance and be gentle... i am a newbie.
edit - new problem - read post 6.
Last edited by Torpedo; Sep 23, 2007 at 03:56 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Assuming the master and slave cylinders are ok, then your slave cylinder is blocked somehow and you need to find out how, like.....clutch rod on the slave cocked and unmovable. Remove the slave and have someone push on the clutch pedal, you should see the slave move.
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From: Decatur Georgia
as per the directions, the slave cylinder is off of the tranny while im doing the bleeding.
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Yes but when the slave is in place you experience a rock hard pedal.
Another place to look is to see if the master cylinder rod that connects to the clutch pedal is moving straight when the pedal is pushed. If the rod is angling off, then you likely have a worn out bushing on the pin that is on the clutch pedal.
Another place to look is to see if the master cylinder rod that connects to the clutch pedal is moving straight when the pedal is pushed. If the rod is angling off, then you likely have a worn out bushing on the pin that is on the clutch pedal.
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From: Decatur Georgia
ok. i knew it had to be something simple, and it was.
The first time i put the new slave cylinder on the pushrod for the shifter fork had fallen down inside the boot. the end still stuck out giving the appearance that it was still in place. so when i installed the slave, nothing pushed against the diaphragm. without something pushing against it, its already at maximum potential. therefore when you push the clutch, theres no where else for it to travel.
But, my initial problem still exists. i can push the clutch all the way to the floor but i still have troubles getting it into gear. its nearly impossible to get it into first gear. Also, it grinds when you try to put it into reverse. i don't know if thats a symptom of the problem or a separate issue.
The first time i put the new slave cylinder on the pushrod for the shifter fork had fallen down inside the boot. the end still stuck out giving the appearance that it was still in place. so when i installed the slave, nothing pushed against the diaphragm. without something pushing against it, its already at maximum potential. therefore when you push the clutch, theres no where else for it to travel.
But, my initial problem still exists. i can push the clutch all the way to the floor but i still have troubles getting it into gear. its nearly impossible to get it into first gear. Also, it grinds when you try to put it into reverse. i don't know if thats a symptom of the problem or a separate issue.
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From: Summerland B.C. Canada
For fun, try and bleed it the old fashion way. I recently tried to bleed mine with the slave installed(lazy). End result was your problem.
Pulled the master off, angled it 45* with the bleeder at the top. 2 full pedal bleeds and it's perfect again.
Pulled the master off, angled it 45* with the bleeder at the top. 2 full pedal bleeds and it's perfect again.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Decatur Georgia
Buddy of mine thinks the clutch is shot and needs to be replaced. any chance thats it??
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Team Owner
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From: Summerland B.C. Canada
I doubt it, a shot clutch will allow poor power transfer, not poor disengagement. Pull the boot back and have a look at fork to pivot stud. Maybe your not on correctly, as in ball in socket with spring clip in position.
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From: Decatur Georgia
What about the shift fork itself being bent or out of adjustment?? the clutch grabs really well, it just doesnt let go. Is there an adjustment for the fork? i felt around in there, but didnt find anything and the haynes manual didnt help much.
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From: Decatur Georgia
The shift rod is in its dimple. i was sure to check that as i was mounting the slave since thats what caused me problems with the first installation. It was tough to change gears before i changed the cylinders... its actually the reason i changed them.
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
The previous owner did some clutch work and because of the high mechanical advantage of the clutch hydraulics, the master/slave is very sensitive to the thickness of the clutch assembly on the flywheel! Too thin (and not by much) and it takes a longer stroke than is available and the cure is to use a longer clutch rod. We had to make one for my 87 in order to allow the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch. If you want to fully disengage your clutch, then you will need to make a longer clutch rod, wishing and posting won't do a thing!
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Decatur Georgia
The previous owner did some clutch work and because of the high mechanical advantage of the clutch hydraulics, the master/slave is very sensitive to the thickness of the clutch assembly on the flywheel! Too thin (and not by much) and it takes a longer stroke than is available and the cure is to use a longer clutch rod. We had to make one for my 87 in order to allow the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch. If you want to fully disengage your clutch, then you will need to make a longer clutch rod, wishing and posting won't do a thing!
Thanks for the help, but calm down.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Phoenix AZ
If the clutch assembly is all stock then you *shouldn't* need a new rod. How long have you been driving the car with it like this? I'm wondering if you've worn out the synchros a bit because they were picking up the slack for the clutch not working 100%.
Give Bill B at ZFDoc.com a ring, he's been through a lot with the hydraulic system on these things and would be able to give you some good advice or troubleshooting options.
Give Bill B at ZFDoc.com a ring, he's been through a lot with the hydraulic system on these things and would be able to give you some good advice or troubleshooting options.
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From: Decatur Georgia
If the clutch assembly is all stock then you *shouldn't* need a new rod. How long have you been driving the car with it like this? I'm wondering if you've worn out the synchros a bit because they were picking up the slack for the clutch not working 100%.
Give Bill B at ZFDoc.com a ring, he's been through a lot with the hydraulic system on these things and would be able to give you some good advice or troubleshooting options.
Give Bill B at ZFDoc.com a ring, he's been through a lot with the hydraulic system on these things and would be able to give you some good advice or troubleshooting options.
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From: Decatur Georgia
I looked at the fork while my wife pressed in the clutch. its only moving about 1/3 of its intended travel. i tried bleeding it again, but it didnt get much better so i called ZFDoc. Very nice guy! he said he didnt have much exp. with the 4+3, but that most likely it was NOT an internal transmission or clutch problem. there is something up with my "new" master cylinder or slave cylinder...
man... im sure getting tired of bleeding these things!
man... im sure getting tired of bleeding these things!
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From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Good to see you ruled out the mechanical end.
Can you describe you bleeding method in detail, maybe some little thing you are doing wrong is stopping it from being totally bled of air.
Can you describe you bleeding method in detail, maybe some little thing you are doing wrong is stopping it from being totally bled of air.
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
In my case the xmsn was out because the OD committed suicide and we decided to take advantage of the situation and replace the disc (144k miles). The disc didn't need replacement but this would be a no labor insurance and the only thing we did was take .005 off the flywheel to clean it up and install a new disc. It was impossible to disengage the clutch and we wound up making a longer clutch rod and I am now at 217k miles and working perfectly.