hey all, been a while since i've been in the tech forum, looking for advice from people who've painted their c4

i'm looking to paint the vette, it needs paint bad but i can't afford super expensive super nice paint so for the time being (think next couple years) i plan to shoot it with duplicolor paint shop lacquer. i plan to do it myself in the booth where i used to work, i've read a ton of stuff on painting and talked to the painter at work many times about painting and prep
yeah i know it's not great paint and save me the save up for a professional job stuff as that aint happening right now. i need to get the vette back on the road and it needs some other stuff too but i don't want to drive a sanded car around (i sanded it last year to paint but ran out of time and money for projects). i have every intent of repainting it after i can get some money saved up but that isn't going to be within the next couple years

so how much paint should i expect to use?

 

Lacquer paint is not what it used to be years ago as I have read. I painted my 68 and 70 with the old style lacquer when Dupont was selling it in the mid-80's and early 90. When it came to having my 85 painted I had a insurance check from an incident, very minor no body damage, from another person, about $700. The amount was this high because of the requirement for paint damage. I disassembled the front, rear facias, side vents, lower panels, and removed all the rubber molding in the doors, panels and facias. Took the car to a good body/paint shop and it cost me $1200.00 for two tone silver/gray original color in base coat/clear coat Dupont paint. The owner even lent me his pick-up to bring all the parts home to assemble on the car. He also told me he would not paint another Corvette for that amount of money, it would be more. That was about 10 years ago. I would recommend you have it painted with the base coat/clear coat paint of today when you save up the money. Save as much as you can and get a loan when everything else is bought and paid for and have it painted professionally and enjoy the road miles. The actual spray painting is the easy part of a cars repaint, not a lot of man hours required. Something I found about my 85 after owning it for several years is that premium fuel is not needed, it runs great on the reg fuel. The engine data that I got from GM made me switch. Your 86 should have the same engine specs as my 85. Another thing I found out is that GM built these engines with forged pistons, not cast.

 

i'm doing all the prep, dissassembly reassembly, shooting, buffing, everything myself, i just need to know how much paint
again i stress this paint job is going to be temporary it's a driver and i don't care too terribly much about looks (as evidenced by my scratched rusted out bronco with paint that runs in the rain) but don't want to drive a car without paint on it,
and as i said i know the lacquer isn't the best but i'd rather get 2 years out of a $200 paint job than not drive the vette for another 2 years while i save up (saving up is hard to do as something else usually breaks) i will clear over the paint too
i'm not taking out a loan to pay for paint on a car i already own, i need another vehicle as soon as possible, my brother wrecked his truck a while back and i'm about to sell my motorcycle so the vette has to be back up so we have another vehicle it needs new exhaust, and a new a/c system

 

I've painted my 86 a couple of times. I also saw the Dupli-Color lacquer paint at AutoZone that you're referring to, I saw it in quarts.

You'd need at least 5 quarts (according to their can) and maybe more. Paint can reads that it's ready to shoot, so with no reducing is required. You'll get less than one quart of coverage out of every can; since some will get lost by over-spray, especially if you use a NON HVLP gun.

So, at $20 a quart, you're looking at $120 + tax just for 5 qts of color. You'd need primer/sealer and clear too. So my thinking is that you'd definitely be well over $200 out the door. You'll also need sand paper, solvent to clean up the equipment, etc. Then there's always the color sanding, buffing, polishing afterwards.

By the time you get all you need, you'll be very close to what it would cost for DuPont B/C system. That's what I used each time.

Since the base color mixes 1:1 with their Basemaker, a gallon of base gave me two gallons of ready to shoot material. Since I did a color change and the car has a ground effects kit- involves doing the jams, spoilers, etc. - I needed it all.

If you want, you can go with their NASON Single Stage system which eliminates the cost of buying clear, clear activator, clear reducer. The Single Stage lays down to a very durable HIGH shine without the need for spraying clear. It's also a lot cheaper than the Chroma System products.

I painted my motorcycle with it a while back and it really works well and resists gravel dings, etc. very well. Pretty tough stuff. Easy to shoot too.

Do a Google search and read many other comments about DuPont's NASON paint. You may be surprised at how highly guys speak of it.

Of course, you'll get responses from others who'll recommend different brands, such as PPG, etc., seems everyone has their favorite. But bear in mind that all Vettes leave the factory wearing DuPont. That should tell you something.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

the $200 was just used as an example i'm not bound to that but don't wan't to go super high dollar for a non show car, daily driver
is NASON similar to IMRON, i've heard great things about imron but i've heard it can be hard to find. and any idea what the prices on the nason run?
i'm off to search it right now
the sandpaper solvents and other stuff i can get through work for the super low jobber price and small things the boss doesn't mind us using as long as we don't abuse it, hell i sanded the whole car with 2 pieces of 320 if that gives you an idea how bad the paint was

 

No, IMRON is a different product. It's cures like iron and holds up well in, like, race car environments, construction equipment, etc.

A buddy of mine shot his 8 second Camaro with IMRON because of the terrible return road gravel situation at the track he usually raced at. Paint looked like new for years.

I'm not sure how repair work would turn out with IMRON paint. I suspect it would be one huge PIA to get off.

Jake

 

Wouldn't he be also getting into things like needing an oxygen supply for him, and what about having to cure or bake on the other paints?

 

Nope, these new paints chemically dry and cure. Baking isn't required. The chemicals interact with each other to eliminate the need for it, which renders the finish ready for color sanding, compounding, polishing, and delivery of the car, many times in 24 hours or less from the time it's shot.

Shops that want to turn over cars in shorter periods of time - in order to deliver one and begin the next in the shortest time - can use heat to accelerate the drying process, but it's not required or necessary. Most of the DuPont paints I've read about are dust free in about 30 minutes, or less.

For multi-stage systems, like primer, sealer, base coats, clear coats, ballpark, you'd be looking at 5-10 minutes flash time between coats. 30 minutes from finish shooting the primer to shooting the first coat of color, another 30 minutes or less before the first coat of clear.

For single stage, shoot the primer then wait the recommended time (30 minutes or so), then shoot the sealer, wait a few minutes then shoot a couple of coats of the single stage and you're done. Whole thing can be done in an afternoon if you select non-sandable primer.

All he'd need is a mask, which are readily available at the paint shop and many other stores, like ACE, LOWES, etc.

You don't even NEED a spray booth with down-flow or cross-flow air circulation. Many guys shoot their cars in their garage and some even on the driveway. I painted mine in the garage, with the garage door open about two feet and a floor fan placed at the door opening to exhaust any over-spray. Furnace filters can be taped together and used at the door opening to keep any dust/dirt from blowing in.

He can pick up a book at AutoZone - I believe it's called Paint Your Car On a Budget at Home - or something similar - which gives all the details on how to do it. It's about $20

Guys who paint cars for a living will always Poo-Poo a home paint job. You've got to look at their motivation - to keep their hand in your pocket.

Hardest part about the whole deal is summoning the courage to have at it.

Jake

 

have the book read it cover to cover, just not sure what paint i want to use that won't cost a fortune in materials alone
have no problem doing stuff myself, and would really like to do some paint
have access to a huge paint booth so thats a plus, not a necessity but it's nice

i don't think they shoot a sealer at work, just a primer, but the primer has a shiny finish to it, the painter said it keeps the humidity from getting through like a most primers would or something like that,

 

If you have a body shop/paint shop supply near by, see if they have bad color mixed paints(just did not match original car color) as this could cut off as much as 40% on the cost of a good paint. It may not be the exact color you wanted but you may be able to get something close or tolerable for the next 2 years. I think you can get away with 1 gallon with no problem. I have used 1 gallon for painting cars before and ended up with leftover, plus if you get 1 gallon container it is the best chance for a consistant color.
good luck
Woody

 

Could be they're using a primer/sealer which does both jobs. DuPont offers them too. From memory you add more activator on the final coat; that turns it into a sealer. I want to say URO 1140S but I can't be sure on that.

I'm going to Metro Color tomorrow (DuPont Paints); if you want me to price something, shoot me a list - jcameron266@sbcglobal.net The price for the same thing may differ in your neck of the woods, but at least you'll have an idea.

I believe a gallon on NASON is less than $100 but I'll check on that.

Jake

 

I like DuPont "Centari" acrylic enamel. The color you want will effect the cost. Reds are usually the highest. I used their pitch black on my car for the stripe and accents. I used the reducer that was made for higher temperatures so it stayed wet longer. That helped me omit any dry spray form switching to the other side of the car. It's a good idea to get a gallon of laquer thinner to clean your gun out with, too. (It's 1/3 - 1/2 the price of the reducer.) If you don't use a hardener, your extra paint should last for quite a while.

 

Here's a suggestion for you. Back in the seventeenth century when I lived in the UK I was in the body work game and boy did you have to be good to get a great finish with the old laquer paints back then. After a 40 year holiday I decided to paint my vette in my garage and was pleasantly surprised with the new products out there.I went with the omni acrylic enamel.Forgive me if I'm being too basic.I started with a white sandable epoxy high build primer because of spiderwebbing on the urethane panels.That I knocked back with 400 wet/dry.Then the base colour(white).Three coats waiting 20 mins between coats.It's not a gloss finish.48 hours dry time and flatted out with 400.Then the same with clear coat.Flatted that back with800 then 1200 then 1500.Then the buffer with a clear coat buffing compound.Looks like a $6000 pro shop deal.The beauty about doing it this way is if your not the best spray guy in the world you will get runs and build up but you just cut them back before proceeding.And cleanliness is not next to Godliness,it's two miles ahead.Lots of tack rags and a drop of washing up liquid in the water you wet and dry with.It's only hard if you try and rush things.I also found it a lot easier to go panel by panel with the rest masked off to avoid the overspray.Obviously not the way to go in a booth with extractors but at home it works.Funnily enough just after I did mine I saw a program on BBC America of a guy restoring an E-type and he copied me stage by stage.Mine took 1 quart of primer,2 quarts of base and the same in clear.People at our local club have asked me where I got my car painted

 

I went to my local DuPont store - Metro Color of Dallas - this morning and bought the paint for my newest project, painting my Suzuki GSX1100F motorcycle.

Here are a few of numbers:

A quart of DuPont Chroma Premier Basecoat (which, I believe is DuPont's top-of-the-line), runs $85; a quart of Basecoat, same color but in DuPont NASON Ful-Thane was $27. Bought two of those.

A quart of Chroma Premier Snap-Dry Clear was $35. The most expensive item was the Chroma Premier Sealer; $40 a quart.

My entire bill, including the sealer, 2 qts of Basecoat, clear, reducers, activators, gallon of thinner, mixing cups, etc., etc. was $239.39

BTW, for whoever it was that posted they couldn't find IMRON, I saw six gallons of it sitting on one of the shelves in the isle. Had names like Freightliner White, etc. I saw white, green, red and a few other colors.

I'm shooting it Royal Blue Pearl. My guy even gave me about 3 Tablespoons of powdered blue pearl for free when I asked for some to mix in my first coat of clear. In case you don't know, you add about 1 Teaspoon of pearl per quart of ready to shoot clear. More than that usually ruins the pearl effect; something about over-powering the platlettes. So he gave me more than I need; nice folks at Metro Color.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

I was thinking of getting my local tech school to paint my 89 Vette. No charge for labor, I just have to pay for materials which they get a discount on. They painted my 89 Firebird years ago. Though, it did flake in some places. I'm thinking that may mostly be because of materials? Some of the flakes came off because the GM shop had to tape the top of the T-top area when they sealed my T-tops. And some of the paint came off with the tape. Other times some paint flaked of when I was power washing it.

They did leave some paint lines, but I'll have to talk with the shop instructor to make sure he checks their tape work if they do paint my Vette.

I'll have to check with what paint they are using, but can someone give me a run down of what I would need for a gloss black finish? They do get a discount for their materials, so it would help if I could tell them what to get. I'm guessing they probably automatically use the crap paint.

Is it best to do the 3-step clear coat, or the new way that only has a 1-step clear coat?

Thanks

 

Basecoat then Clear coat is the best way. The Clear can be sanded after it sets up to really bring out the shine and you'd be sanding on the CLEAR, not the color itself.

The Clear also is very durable - read that HARD - to it withstands what the roadway throws at it better. Has UV protection too.

With the Single Stage system, after it's shot, any rubbing will be on the color. But SS is cheaper and there are fewer products to buy. However, you can shoot

Clear over the Single Stage finish if you want. some of your savings go out the window if you decide to shoot Clear over the SS.

What you'd need really depends on what you've got. If the car already has been painted twice - once at the factory and a second time afterwards - it would be best to have it stripped. You could paint it as is, but you'll then have three paint jobs on it and the finish will be pretty thick. This could lead to failure of the new paint. I've had more than three paint jobs on mine without any problem, but stripping's best. Labor intensive stuff though.

If you have any bare metal, that'll have to be treated first with something designed for DTM (Direct to Metal). Regular Primer won't adhered well to plain metal.

You'd need primer/primer surfacer or primer filler and the reducer and activator for that. Most of those call for sanding after the required wait time and before the Sealer is shot.

You'd need Sealer to give what DuPont refers to as the best (hold-out). You can get Sealer that is RTS (Ready To Shoot) right out of the can, so no additional additive is needed. If you don't get that type, you'll need reducer and activator for the Sealer. Sometimes, you can get reducer and activator that'll work with both the Primer and the Sealer. You'd save a little $$ if you can go that route.

You'd need Basecoat (color) and, if going with DuPont products, their BaseMaker and activator. I'm using their 12305S activator.

You'd then need Clear, it's reducer and activator.

Most of DuPont's stuff calls for an activator which is what makes the products chemically bond and cure.

You'd need Thinner for clean-up, lots of sandpaper (400, 600, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 grit). The higher number grits are for color sanding the Clear. The lower number grits are for prepping the finish prior to shooting. The directions for each product will tell you which grit to use.

Then you'll need compound for rubbing out the Clear, Polishing liquid and even Glaze to bring out the best shine. There are windows of time inwhich the color sanding, etc., should be done. Max is around 72 hours; longer than that the Clear sets up so hard it's a REAL BITC* to sand.

You'll have an awful time trying to do the color finishing by hand, so some type of low speed buffer will be needed. Anything high speed willburn through the paint in short order.

Of course you'll need a spray gun (I prefer the HVLP type) and compressor, cups for mixing and measuring, sticks to stir the mixture with and strainers/filters.

That's all the can think of (as if that's not enough) LOL

Jake

 

Thanks. Mainly what I'm looking for is the actual paint/clear coat stuff I'd need. The school should have all the sanders, guns, paint thinner, tape, etc. I'm just wanting to pick out the paint materials.

I'm wanting gloss black for the paint color. Do you have any part numbers for those Dupont paint, clearcoat, activator, and sealers you are talking about?

I'm sure they have several different kinds.

Thanks

 

Dupon has two that come to mind - in the ChromaSystem; one is K-99 and another one called SUPER JET BLACK.

NASON has one called BLACK PEARL that also has Metallic in it; another that is just a straight Black.

Each color calls for its own specific reducer and activator ratio.

For example one BaseCoat will call for BaseMaker which mixes 1:1. So with a quart of color when mixing in the Basemaker you end up with 2 quarts of ready to shoot material. Basemaker comes in three different versions, depending on the shop temperature. I believe one is for temps 95+, another is like 80/95* F and the third is below 80*F.

Most, if not all, Chroma System base coats, and many of their clears, call for an activator 12305S. I believe it, too, comes in three different temperature ranges.

You can go to the DuPont website to see which reducer and activator the Chroma products require.

DuPont offers a LOT of different products. You can first choose the BaseCoat color system you want to use, (there are LOT of different systems) the color itself will specify which primer/primer surfacer/primer filler/sealer/clear/reducer/activator, etc. that's recommended.

Just too many variables until you decide which Basecoat you're going with. The Basecoat will dictate all else you can use. If your paint shop is GOOD, guys there will recommend the products to use. They get feedback from other painters and know which ones that are most often used.

BTW, if DuPont RECOMMENDS a certain additive, buy it. You'll get the best results and best durability that way. DO NOT mix different brand products. In other words, for example, don't use PPG primer and DuPont BaseCoat. Stick with ONE COMPANY's products all the way through.

I tend to buy more product than the forumla math calls for. I don't want to get into a job and only then realize I need more, say, activator or reducer, etc.

Jake

 

However I do use the hardner- you put it in each mix as the shelf life with hardner is limited.
Also for cleaning the gun I use a cheaper thinner than whats used to thin the paint.
Generally a gallon will do the average car because you have to thin it
I used a wet look hardner on the last car I painted and you can wet sand and polish when your done , however like it has been said you are sanding color and can sand thru the paint if not careful
if you mix in your own hardner , or the bumper additive make sure to measure it correctly

Lastly if you go with the stuff you buy in quarts it may be a wise idea to buy a empty gallon container and mix it all together tht way the color is all the same

And above all its the prep work that makes or breaks your paint job

 

The 2 quarts of Basecoat I bought were put in a gallon can at the store; that's absolutely the best way to go to insure uniform color. Also, I prefer factory pack colors - mixed and canned at the factory - to make sure that should I need to do a repair in the future the color will have a much better chance of matching.

Of course, if there isn't a factory pack color that you like, you have no choice but to have it mixed. The store will put the formula on the can, but later painting of repairs will have to be blended to get back to the original finish. Blending's an art unto itself.

I do not deviate from the formula. If it calls for a ratio of say 8-1/2-4, that's that I do. Eight parts product, 1/2 part activator and 4 parts reducer. MIX WELL.

Also, if the formula calls for a specific reducer, that's what I use. I don't get creative like some of the custom painters do by - for example -over reducing or other such "tricks".

I'm painting my bike tomorrow. Everything's de-waxed, sanded, masked and ready to go.

Jake