Help! Starter is fried!
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
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From: sw Ohio
Help! Starter is fried!
I found out what the burnt smell was this morning. Tried to start my car, the starter is toast. I went to the store to buy one of those small ones (Nippismo?) and the mechanic told me it wouldnt fit. I asked how that could be if it has the same engine and mounting position. So what kind of starter can I get that will fit without being burned alive? I need it fast cause the Cruise-In is this Sunday. Thanks 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
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From: MD
It probably wouldn't fit because the cables wouldn't reach. I'm running a later model C4 starter and it clears the headers and starts great. They changed over to a gear reduction starter. If you need part numbers I'll try and get some off the box mine came in later.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: sw Ohio
So they do fit then? After looking at one I see no reason why the wires wouldnt reach. Its smaller but the terminals actually look closer to me. I've been looking at gear reduction starters at Jegs and they're not cheap. Do the smaller ones bolt right up with no shims?
I have a starter wrap now so that the new one wont get burned up.
I have a starter wrap now so that the new one wont get burned up.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
They all need shims. Shims can be had at an decent parts place, you can get a box of straight GM shims for 4 bucks and there are several thicknesses. Shim it so the gear mesh is about the thickness of a paperclip wire (35 thou or so). I'll get ya part numbers for the starter I'm running on my 84 at lunch (I'm home sick from work today). It fit great, clears the headers, and starts my 383 real easy. And carquest had it for me in a day.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: sw Ohio
Mine didnt have any shims on it when I took it off and it didnt have shims when I put it back on and it started just fine like that... until now. I noticed that I have NO power at all, not even interior lights. A dead starter will do this?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: MD
Um, if you've got no power at all you've got problems. Is it no lights ever, or do the lights go out when you try to start it? I'd check the battery leads first. Sounds like you've got something other than a bad starter.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: sw Ohio
Before when it did start, it'd crank for half second, stop, then start and the voltage would read 9.5 volts when it started 
This morning it did the same thing, but didnt start after it stopped.
The connections are nice and tight and I know theres 12 volts at the battery. Its only 1 1/2 years old. This leads me to believe that the starter is toast. Is there some way the starter could be under a lot of load from not being shimmed or something like that and its causing a voltage drop?
The only thing I can think of is the alternator, but then my voltage would drop while its running at idle, right? It remains at 14-14.5 volts while running.
This morning it did the same thing, but didnt start after it stopped.
The connections are nice and tight and I know theres 12 volts at the battery. Its only 1 1/2 years old. This leads me to believe that the starter is toast. Is there some way the starter could be under a lot of load from not being shimmed or something like that and its causing a voltage drop?
The only thing I can think of is the alternator, but then my voltage would drop while its running at idle, right? It remains at 14-14.5 volts while running.
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Joined: Jun 1999
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From: Merritt Ils Fl
1. Your starter is toast, most likely.
2. Change mechanics.
3. A mini starter will fit. A decent parts store can give you the correct one. If not look at Summit for a crossreference.
4. There is a medium sized wire coming off the battery terminal on your starter. That wire is called the body feed, has an inline fuse (looks like a cylinder). If the fuse is fried the car will not have power.
5. You need an FSM if you intend to do very much work on your car.
2. Change mechanics.
3. A mini starter will fit. A decent parts store can give you the correct one. If not look at Summit for a crossreference.
4. There is a medium sized wire coming off the battery terminal on your starter. That wire is called the body feed, has an inline fuse (looks like a cylinder). If the fuse is fried the car will not have power.
5. You need an FSM if you intend to do very much work on your car.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
1. Your starter is toast, most likely.
2. Change mechanics.
3. A mini starter will fit. A decent parts store can give you the correct one. If not look at Summit for a crossreference.
4. There is a medium sized wire coming off the battery terminal on your starter. That wire is called the body feed, has an inline fuse (looks like a cylinder). If the fuse is fried the car will not have power.
5. You need an FSM if you intend to do very much work on your car.
2. Change mechanics.
3. A mini starter will fit. A decent parts store can give you the correct one. If not look at Summit for a crossreference.
4. There is a medium sized wire coming off the battery terminal on your starter. That wire is called the body feed, has an inline fuse (looks like a cylinder). If the fuse is fried the car will not have power.
5. You need an FSM if you intend to do very much work on your car.
This is my fault, I had tied the wires up out of the way but the heat was too much and just killed the wires. I have some reflective heat wrap for wires that I bought, so I just need to fix this first. I'm not an electrician so I could really use some advice on fixing the fuse thing.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 1
From: Norcross GA
If you are thinking about just cutting out & replacing the link, replace the wire with one that is 2 sizes smaller. i.e. If the feed (not the fuse) is 18 gauge, use 20 gauge wire. This is what makes a fuse. You can find replacement fuse-links at most all part stores.
It is easy to replace the link you can get to. The one on the other side, probably won't be as easy to get to. Besides, it is just not a good idea to delete fuse-links.
It is easy to replace the link you can get to. The one on the other side, probably won't be as easy to get to. Besides, it is just not a good idea to delete fuse-links.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
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From: sw Ohio
I'm going to go find a new fusible link at the parts store, but will keep your idea in mind if I dont some. I'm also thinking about replacing the starter anyway while apart again... thanks for the help again 
Team Owner
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
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The ones from 88-91 will fit and are much smaller and may need shims and to have the cables lengthened a bit. You should change mechanics.
They are Nippondenso.
They are Nippondenso.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: sw Ohio
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...51066_-1_10689
Last edited by Demonic85; Oct 17, 2007 at 01:43 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
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From: MD
That Jegs starter is $135. I didn't have a core either, but I paid for one of the Delco (or whoever makes it now) '91 vette ministarters. That way I've got a warranty where I can take it back to a local place. Also, I was told that the starter wire won't reach an aftermarket one without modification. It reached the '91 vette starter without lengthening.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 1
From: Norcross GA
Just so you know,...
A fuseable link is a wire that is 2AWG sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting. A roll marked as "fusible wire", is just a fancy name for wire. Some marketing genius got big $ to sell wire like this.
The fusible wire has a higher strand count. Higher strand count means thinner strands. A thinner strand burns faster. That is code for, "it is more flexbile, and it is more prown to burn."
The difference between "fusible" and nonfusible wire of the same gauge,... the difference between a slow & fast blow fuse. They both do the job. One reacts faster than the other.
To easily test your starter,... run a small temp jumper from the big wire post on the starter (battery feed) to the small wire post on the starter(starter switch). Don't do this with the starter in your hand. The torque twist will make it jump right out of your hand.
Do what you can to seal out water (salt). It will corrode the wire, making it more prone to burning. (Probably the cause of your initial failure.) Maybe you wanna grab some heat shrink tube while your at the parts store.
A fuseable link is a wire that is 2AWG sizes smaller than the wire it is protecting. A roll marked as "fusible wire", is just a fancy name for wire. Some marketing genius got big $ to sell wire like this.
The fusible wire has a higher strand count. Higher strand count means thinner strands. A thinner strand burns faster. That is code for, "it is more flexbile, and it is more prown to burn."
The difference between "fusible" and nonfusible wire of the same gauge,... the difference between a slow & fast blow fuse. They both do the job. One reacts faster than the other.
To easily test your starter,... run a small temp jumper from the big wire post on the starter (battery feed) to the small wire post on the starter(starter switch). Don't do this with the starter in your hand. The torque twist will make it jump right out of your hand.
Do what you can to seal out water (salt). It will corrode the wire, making it more prone to burning. (Probably the cause of your initial failure.) Maybe you wanna grab some heat shrink tube while your at the parts store.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Well I called around and couldnt find a '88-'91 starter. I just bought one off fleabay for cheap. I know it has to be shipped but i'll take your guys' word for it that it will fit no problems.
Even if my original starter is still good, its an old starter and will probably fail soon anyway especially from being so close the headers.
Even if my original starter is still good, its an old starter and will probably fail soon anyway especially from being so close the headers.
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 583
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Try Summit Racing www.summitracing.com ,they are in Ohio, close to Akron so delivery generally takes one day.