Hedman?? you do you mean Hooker?

If you got the 2151.. I don't think you should have a problem with plugs.. if they are identical to the stock plug angles ont he stock 89 heads.. I have the 2151's with Stock casting heads and the plugs clear fine.. I think # 2 and #8 are little tough to install but otherwise no problems

 

Jeff,
Yes you are correct. I keep saying Hedman when I should be saying Holley/Hooker. Guess my wires are still crossed from the holiday beverages! Sorry about that. I am fairly confident they will fit. Keep your fingers crossed for me! I really don't want to go through the hassle of finding a different set. Oh well we will see. :cheers:

 

Hey all,
Thought I would update you all on the status of the Hooker Headers: I received the headers yesterday with the ceramic coatings. Man do they look nice. I set the heads up on the bench with spark plugs in and all the plugs clear no problem :D Man was I ever worried that I might have gotten the AFR angle instead of the L-98 angle. I proceded to lower the entire exhaust system down from the car. Took about 15 minutes. I then fished the headers down in from the top without the heads in place. Then I checked once again for clearance with the heads on. These babies fit perfect. I think I am going to order some heat blankets for my starter just for insurance, but other than that they should be perfect. I would highly recommend the Hookers. If you get the ones with the ERG crap you might have a bit more trouble getting them in the way I did, not can't say for sure. Also I should be able to torque all the head bolts with the headers down in there. This will make this job a million times easier. Installation from the bottom may be possible, but I was not going to experiment if I didn't have to. The method of putting them down in from the top would nearly be impossible if the heads were on. At least that is the way it looked. Man I can't wait to fire this thing up. I should have it back together in a month or so. What Roller Rockers do you guys recommend? I was thinking about Crane Golds, but they are 2x what other are. Are they really worth the money? I would like to get them ordered ASAP with an adjustable pushrod. I plan on adjusting the pushrod without the manifold on then I don't have to keep taking the rocker off. I look forward to hearing from you guys. Ralph what kind do you like. I really appreciate your help. By the way AFR said DO NOT get self-aligning ones! They cause the pushrods to wear against the guides and also add unneeded resistance. Thanks all. :cheers:

 

Also the headers will go in easy from the bottom with the heads on :D

I have non-coated hookers right now.. get coated in Jan or Feb.. I have not had a heat soak starter problem yet..

Also for rockers.. Buy the Comp Cam Pro-magnum roller rockers...

 

That's cool! Yes, the 2151s are really nice and the fit well.

The y-pipe they have for the 2149/2151 is also a really nice
piece. It's 3" and bolts straight to the header collector - no reducer
necessary. You can get reducers with the O2 bung, but since I'm
using the y-pipe too, and it's not coated, I'm going to weld a O2
bung into the y-pipe (near the flange that bolts to the collector)
and then send the y-pipe to be coated too.

Ditto on Jeff on the Comp Cams pro-magnum rockers.

Dan

 

From the looks of how those headers fit on the angle plug heads, do you think they would also fit on straight plug heads?

 

another vote for the comp cams pro mag rockers. the aluminum rockers not recommended to daily street use. the crane and comp cams stainless steel rockers are more expensive, but i've never had a problem with the pro mags.

Damn, i couldn't get the LPE headers in from the top even with the heads off and they are only 1 5/8 primaries!!! They were even alittle tricky from below.

Ski, i would recommned a ministarter while you are there. $150 + $30 for heat shield. i don't know about the hookers, but with the LPE headers, that big starter is encased in header tubes. It gets heat soaked and you can't remove it without removing the header. maybe the hookers are more friendly, i dunno

keep us posted

 

Hey guys,
The decision seems to be with the Pro Mags....I will get them. Summit has them for 279.00 does anyone have a better place to get them? As far as the straight plugs go I can't say for sure, but thinking back I think acouple of the pipes come out right above the sparkplug hole therefore I think you would definitely have some problems getting at them. Ralph, I belive the starters come with minis in 89, nevertheless the starter is not incased as you describe it. It is out in the open and easy to get at. I will definately look at a heat sheild although someone else indicated that they had no problems with their starter. I figure it is cheap insurance. The Chevelle eats the starters like candy. But that thing gets ungodly hot. I really appreciate all your help guys. This is the first time doing all this and I have not had one problem yet. (knock on wood). I contribute much of this to the help I receive on the forum. Thanks again.
Oh yeah, will I have problems with the valve covers and the posi-locks that come with the pro-mags? What are your experiences. I have already cut the drip tabs off, I remembered reading somewere that this would need to be done. I sat the valve covers on yesterday without rocker of course and they seem to match up well. Let me know. Thanks again.

 

you shouldn't have any problems with the valve covers if you cut the drip tabs. You might have to squeeze the breather baffles a little to get them in between the rockers, but no big deal. Also, get yourself the felpro cork lamb double gaskets. They are like two gaskets matted to a metal ring. They are a bit expensive, but great gaskets and will add a liitle height to the covers. This is where i think a lot of guys underestimate misc stuff. You can get $5 cover gaskets or $35 gaskets....but you get what you pay for. Same is true of the intake and the oil pan and other critical gaskets. Get the top of the line felpro gaskets and you wont be sorry.


[Modified by ralph, 12:28 PM 12/28/2001]

 

Super, Thanks Ralph. Ralph what kind of HP do you think this setup will be putting out? Just curious.

 

Guys,
Another update: I have both heads now on. Both sides were much easier than expected to put on. I have been taking my good old time making sure ever detail has been addressed. Ordered the 7/16 pro mag RR, Hi-Tech pushrod checker, and ARP 7/16 studs. I read somewere were guys were having problems with the AFR RR studs bending. They recommended ARP replacements. I thought for 38.00 it was cheap insurance. Once I have the RR and adjustable checker what is the best way to make sure you have the right geometry? I have read Comp Cams valve geometry lesson. I think I have a fairly good understanding of what to look for, but their lesson gives no instructions for getting there. What I mean is do you set up the rocker on #1 clyinder TDC then set RR with Adjustable pushrod at guessed length and check geometry. Then repeat whole process over and over till you get the right geometry? Any suggestions on the steps would greatly be appreciated. Thanks. Also how do you guys set yor RR up for proper tightening? I don't know if there will be instructions or not? Thanks guys.

 

Since when have aluminum rockers not been recommended for daily use? Maybe you are refering to a different type, but the Crane golds are supposed to be good for about 100k miles. Also I know the LT4 roller rockers were recalled, but they were fixed under warranty, with aluminum rockers. I wouldn't think any company would put out something that isn't meant for street use on a production car.

:confused:

 

Nathan,
I think what Ralph was trying to say is (because he and I have spoke before and our setups will be almost the same) is that he would not recommend me to get the aluminum ones for what I am trying to achieve. In addition, I think he is trying to point out that aluminum RR have there place and they may not be as strong as the 8620 Chromemoly Steel Pro magnums. I think I will trust his judgement since he is running an 11sec stock bottom 350!
Perhaps someone can answer my question as the rocker and adjustable pushrod will be here tonight.
Just as an update I have both the heads on with no problems. Both the headers are up and in place. The two back bolts are going to be hard as hell to get at to tighten. I think I am going to use some S.H.C.S. in place of the hex heads. I think I will be able to get an allen wrench in there easier. I did notice that some of the heads of the bolts hit the header pipes when trying to get them in. Some needed to be put all the way through the header flange before trying to get the bolts into the threaded hole on the header otherwise they would not line up right. Just took a bit of fiddling around to get them right. I now could take them off and put them on in less than a 1/2 hour. These were by far the easiest headers I have ever put on. Anyone looking for a set, I highly recommend these ones.
Hopefully someone can give me some advise on my above question. Thanks guys!

 

Nathan is probably right. I've read that the aluminum rockers will wear with regular street use, but have never actually seen any real evidence. in fact, back in the 70's the alum rollers were the only game in town....i knew quite a few people using them in street/strip applications and no problem as far as i can remember. anyway...with that said the comp pro magnums are not much more expensive then the best aluminum rockers, so why not go with the chrome moly.

Ski, those rear header bolts are a bitch, at least on the LPE headers. the passenger side can be had from under the car with a 1/4 rachet and 7/16 deep socket. The drivers side is almost impossible. i used an allen bolt and can just barely get to it from under the car. the primary swings out, so getting any sort of wrench on it is tough. i used as many allen bolts as possible and forget about 12 points bolts....no way to tighten them.

Keep us posted

 

As far as checking geometry goes, start with stock length pushrod and set up a valve. Put some machinists die or just some felt pen on the top of the valvestem surface the contacts the rocker first. Then adjust the valve and turn the motor over several times. Look for the pattern on the valvestem. It should be roughly in the middle of the circle. If it's too far towards the inside of the engine the PR is too long. If it's too far towards the outside then they are too short. Generally you will end up with stock to stock + .1". You should check all valves to be sure.

Oh, it helps to run a solid lifter during this test as long as it's the same ht as the hyd one. I've only done this on solid cam equipped motors, almost forgot about that.

Good luck.

Scott

 

All,
Thanks for your responses again. I spent last night checking for the correct length. Got everything just right and was happy till this morning when I went to order them. I spoke with a tech at Comp Cams and started chatting with him to make sure everything was set up as should be. Here is what I discovered:
First call last night to the Comp Cams Tech support the guy told me to guess at the length (should be slightly longer than stock) Put your RR on the stud and then begin to tighten the polylock till there is some drag on the pushrod your trying to rotate. When this drag is achieved give the polylock 1/2 turn and then your ready to rotate the engine and track the path of the roller on the valve. This track should start 1/3 of the way across the top of the valce on the intake side, travel across and be at mid way at 1/2 lift, and lastly at full valve lift be at 2/3 of the way across the valve top towards the exhaust side. This may seem to be confusing but think of it in 3 parts and it clears things up. These were the instructions I followed and here is were I almost messed up. As C4Racer stated you need a solid lifter to do this right. Using this technique will depress the lifter when rotating the engine over becuase the springs on the valves are much stronger than the lifter springs when not pumped full of oil. When I spoke with the tech this morning he was enraged that the other tech told me to do this. He wanted his name and everything so he could ream him out! I did not want to get anyone in trouble so I just said I did not remember. To boot the tech also told me to add 0.030 to the length I found last night. According to the tech today, this would have left all my valves open a bit and no compression would have been achieved and possible burt valves. This really scared me, but the new tech assured me the way he was about to discribe to me would work and not leave me with burt valves. He kept saying "I can't wait to review the records to see who spoke with you!" I think someone might be getting the :seeya . Anyways here is the way he told me to do it and I though I would run it by you all:
First of all find mid lift with an indicator. Basically max lifter height divided by 2. Rotate engine over till that height of the lifter is achieved. Stop rotating. Next put your adjustable pushrod (fully closed) down through the guides until it comes into contact with the lifter. Place the RR on the stud and tighten the polylock in a position that allows the roller of the RR to be in the center of the valve. Once this has been done. Start extending the adjustable pushrod outward till it comes into contact with the RR and firms up. (do not over extend or this will compress the lifter spring as the first technique did). This according to the new tech is the correct pushrod length. It seems to be that there would be a slight variation dur to the valve still being in the fully closed position, but he assured me it would not make any difference.
I Hope some of you that have experience doing this chime in and give me some feedback. I am really uneasy about this whole process. I understand how to follow their instructions, but lack the confidence of what they are telling me to do. Your help would be unbelievably welcome. Thanks in advance guys.
P.S. I hope this helps others that need to figure this out.

 

When in doubt, go to "the book." Lingenfelter recommends the following process, which worked for me:

Put cam on the base circle. put your rod checker & rocker in place. Snug up the rocker and rock it (by hand) across the top of the valve. The witness mark should be on the inboard 1/3 of the stem. If the mark is in the center, then the push rod is too long. If the mark is further inside, then it is too short.

Using this method you eliminate the possiblilty of compressing the lifter or the valve. It worked fine for me as the wear marks on my valve are dead center.

good luck

 

Ralph,
Thanks for the reply, but I have a question...

Are you saying that you just adjust the pushrod to what you think it is(guess). Then tighten the rocker down snug then 1/2 turn. Jiggle the rocker back and forth. Take the rocker off and look to see were mark is at. IF 1/3 of the way towards intake all is fine order that size pushrod. Oh yeah and naturally you would be on the basecircle of the roller.
Sorry for being so thick. I just know how criticle this is and do not want to screw anything up. Thanks again.

 

That is correct. However it is not exactly a guess...you can look at where the roller tip of the rocker contacts the valve. That will get you close, then adjust accordingly until you get it exact. the rocker will sit on the upper 1/3 will the valve is closed and then will sit at the bottom 1/3 when full open and in the center at about 1/2 lift. At least that is how Lingenfelter explained it. IF you want to double check, just crank the engine around and see how the rocker marks the valve. I know it will not open all the way (because of lifter collapse), but it will be close. if you can use the starter to do it, it will not colapse that much (assuming they have some oil in them).

BTW, i needed 7.425in rods using the AFRs and retro lifters in pre roller block. Probably doesn't help you much if you have a roller block as the lifters are different.

 

Ralph,
Thanks for the quick reply. You answered all my questions. I think I have a pretty good handle on it now. Let you know what I come up with. Yesterday using the "wrong" technique I came up with 7.350" then the guy said to add the 0.030" to that for "preload". I will do it the new way probably Sunday for tomorrow I will have to hit the ski slopes for some hot doggin. Thanks guys. I'll keep you all posted. I think this thread will help others on their quest for more power! Later.