My reasons for picking this manifold.

I studied the intakes, TPI is best for my driving, street Vette, spend a lot of time in 5th and 6th 1800 to 3000 RPM on the Freeway. Never been down an official drag strip and don't plan to. Rarely turn the motor past 5500. So Mini Ram was out.

Even though I read the stories of Super ram air leaks, I had been trying to find SR for good price, no luck. Not fast enough on the Forum or was outbid.

Also needed to replace my throttle body, butterfly shaft has a lot of play. compare the price of new manifold, fuel rails, and throttle body to the that of the complete FIRST unit. Bonus is the Stock FIRST flows as well as a ported SR.

The most bang for the buck I could find.

Apologies for hosting the pics on TGO, did not know you had to be a member to view linked pics, Thanks Chris.

 

Does anyone know what the runner lengths are on the FIRST intake? I have been searching without luck. They sure look longer than an SuperRam but are they shorter than stock TPI?

 

Bought the book, and, have read it. Also bought the intake (and am using it)

 

I wasn't attempting to debate that the FIRST is a "better" intake than a superram. What I am saying is that a FIRST intake is a viable alternative, both in cost and street performance to a superram, considering the quirks of superram install and R&R for most people, and, the documented evidence from people who have used this intake. This thread, as recent others, is about the FIRST intake; however, it seems there are those among us that cannot accept the idea that there are alternative routes to the same destination and that their way is the only way and will accept no other alternatives. Same thing with wings, hash marks, wheels and tires, etc. Someone asks a specific technical question or makes a thread about what they bought, and the nea sayers come out to trash, opinions solicited or not (and without any hands on experience about what they are trashing). Be happy with the superram, miniram, or whatever toots ur horn. I'm happy to give this intake a spin and see how it reacts ON THE STREET. Then, I'll make my decision on it's worth or lack thereof. "Some" of us are not qtr mile pounders and don't care about that last 200rpm or the last .10 of a sec. This post is for us.

 

 

I own the book and I've read it so much that it's falling apart.

For the record -- I'm not arguing with "Sir John". He's absolutely right about the relationship between runner lengths and RPM capability when comparing two sets of runners using the same base. The same theory also holds true for the FIRST -- it would make more power at higher RPM with shorter runners of the same diameter that bolt to the FIRST base. However, it is not necessarily valid to compare the FIRST directly to a "standard" TPI because they have some significant geometric differences that affect the flow dynamics even though they appear to be very similar at first glance.

A very important factor in flow behavior through a long passage is the ratio of the length of the passage to its diameter -- the L/D ratio. Grossly simplified, the L/D is the limiting factor for flow rate through any given passage. In the case of a long tube TPI vs. the FIRST, the total length through the runner and manifold are the same, but the FIRST has a minimum runner diameter in unported form of 1.75" compared to 1.66" for AS&M runners, which can't really be ported. This doesn't seem like much until you consider that the FIRST can be ported out to at least 1.85" diameter. That gives the FIRST a smaller L/D than a production based TPI. Because of this, a given amount of air flowing through the FIRST will have a lower velocity than the same amount of air in a large tube runner TPI system at a given engine RPM. The TPI runs out of steam at a given RPM because the flow velocity reaches a critical point and the air "stacks". The FIRST has lower flow velocity, so the RPM at which this "stacking" occurs is higher and the FIRST can still continue to make power past the point where the TPI peaks. This is the basis for my earlier statement that the FIRST runners "act" shorter than they really are.

 

 

It would be interesting, for someone that get's one of these, to take the time to measure up the manifold runner size and length, the runner dia and length, and maybe the plenum size - width & hieght.
Maybe even CC the runners buy taping up one end and measuring with water.
I've been watching the First manifold since it came out, and have never seen anyone measure one out.
Would be interesting, when comparing it to others, or modeling it on a sim......

 

I'm planning on measuring the plenum volume when I have the time -- probably in a week or so. I also was planning on measuring my ported plenum.

The runner diameter and length is available. I have the information at home. I can post it up later but I will also measure it when I check the plenum volume.

 

I cant wait to see the results of the builds from this system .Done right you dont need to twist the motor to make big power for the street. HP doesnt kill motors, RPM does.

 

Man, some people are smart beyond their years! (My motor just took a big sigh of relief as I read this.)

 

Mine just came in last night. Unforntunately, it's not going on till March, as I have other coals in the fire with my AMX.

 

I don't want to wrap my engine up to 7k rpm all the dang time. Power above 5k rpm doesn't do me a lot of good because there aren't a lot of places that I'd use it.

 

Looks neat'o. Is that going on your white car?

 

YesSir

 

You could store it on my car until March

That looks great

I know that you paid extra for the paint but was the brackets and the TB included in the price of the intake or are they ad ons

 

Everything was standard except the paint, thermostat housing, and adapter for air cleaner attachment. All brackets and fuel rails come with the intake.

 

Mine has arrived and is in the customs now. I will go get it on monday. But like so many other I will not be installing it yet. Its a part of my engine project and I have many more bits to buy.

I also tried to buy a Super RAM for street use but couldn't find one. Absolutely none available locally over last 5 years. Almost bought one from a forum member in USA but after I waited for 3 weeks for him to take it off his car he informed me that he had sold it locally. Nice as I already had the throttle bracket and spare gaskets etc. Well, then Accel/LPE dropped the SR. First had cought my eye already earlier but I skipped as I didn't want to mod my hood. Also I need the EGR functional so most other options don't work for me. Then I heard that the First will fit to C4 engine bay with stock hood with the mods the manufacturer makes per request.

IMHO I believe its a very good option for street driven 350-383 engines. I could not care less about top speed or performance on the strip as those are not something usable here. Drag racing is not popular (or considered a sport by 99% of people) and top speed can be a bit expensive. We have no upper limit on the speeding tickets, my largest one this far is $2000 and just a few months ago my friend was fined $15600 for driving 106mph at 75 zone. The record is $731000 one guy was fined couple of years ago after speeding inside city limits with his Lambo.

Here is one comparison of unported First against MR and AS&M. Too bad I don't have one against SR which would be more interesting:

9:1 355 AFR heads hydraulic cam
RPM - FIRST - MiniRam - AZ Speed & Marine
2500 - 175 ---- 175 ----- 180
3000 - 237 ---- 222 ----- 238
3500 - 295 ---- 263 ----- 295
4000 - 350 ---- 300 ----- 325
4500 - 377 ---- 350 ----- 352
5000 - 388 ---- 375 ----- 350
5500 - 366 ---- 398 ----- 330

The FIRST made 443 TQ vs the Miniram's 395 TQ at 3500 rpm (+48)
The FIRST made 460 TQ vs the Miniram's 394 TQ at 4000 rpm (+66)

Source: Popular Hotrodding magazine

 

Remind me not to drive in Finland

At 31 MPH over you spent a little over $503 per mile over 75

If you figure at that rate for the Lambo he was doing more than 1453 over

Z01#316

Thanks for the info, (I guess I don't get to store it for you ) again that looks great.

Joe

 

The fine is not all about the speed, its mostly about your income. Well, speed is taken like this: 1-10mph speeding, fine only like 200 bucks, over that they will look at your income and then you will start to suffer. 16mph or more speeding and your family will suffer too We have a progressive tax system so more you make more you pay. In the speeding issue this means they try to make fines hurt everybody as much. So, they check what your net income is and calculate the fine according to that. If your income is massive, your fine will be equally massive.

If I remember it correctly the lambo was only doing like 38mph at 18mph limit zone. That is like 100% over the limit which is considered bad even if there was no real danger.

Its been 15 years since I was fined so I knock on wood and hope not to get a serious fine (16+mph speeding) any time soon. It would really hurt