89 No start
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
89 No start
Been fiddling with this no start problem for a little bit now. Heres what I've got
89 Vette
Has fuel pressure (about 43psi)
Has spark
Has voltage (battery)
Engine will crank
While cranking the security light blinks.
Thing doesn't seem to be firing the injectors. I had a set out of my 94 camaro that I swapped in (they were in working condition), still nothing.
I was thinking vats related but I've seen soo many people on here say it won't crank if its vats related but I have no idea what else it could be.
and btw the car WILL run if sprayed with starting fluid or something similar.
89 Vette
Has fuel pressure (about 43psi)
Has spark
Has voltage (battery)
Engine will crank
While cranking the security light blinks.
Thing doesn't seem to be firing the injectors. I had a set out of my 94 camaro that I swapped in (they were in working condition), still nothing.
I was thinking vats related but I've seen soo many people on here say it won't crank if its vats related but I have no idea what else it could be.
and btw the car WILL run if sprayed with starting fluid or something similar.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
From: :45 minutes from everywhere / E-I-E-I-O
Not a vats gig. That will kill the starter power.
Air - filter ok?
Fuel, - does the exhaust smell like gas after a start attempt? Wet spark plugs?
Spark - spark/no spark, timing?
Air - filter ok?
Fuel, - does the exhaust smell like gas after a start attempt? Wet spark plugs?
Spark - spark/no spark, timing?
Last edited by schrade; May 27, 2008 at 07:56 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Pueblo CO
check this out:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...n%27t+start%21
in the end, after excruciating troubleshooting, replacement injectors did the trick.
edl
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...n%27t+start%21
in the end, after excruciating troubleshooting, replacement injectors did the trick.
edl
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,297
Likes: 240
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
ECM needs to see a reference pulse from dist., before it will fire the injectors.
This could be a good place to start.
http://members.shaw.ca/corvette86/En...ButWontRun.pdf
This could be a good place to start.
http://members.shaw.ca/corvette86/En...ButWontRun.pdf
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Starter fluid proves that the injectors are not working. Put a noid light (available from parts stores) or a low power 12v lamp like a 194 side marker lamp across an injector plug while cranking and see if it pulses. Check both injector fuses with an ohmeter. If you have spark, then you have reference pulses and the injectors should also be pulsed during cranking. You may have a defective ECM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,297
Likes: 240
From: Summerland B.C. Canada
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
Starter fluid proves that the injectors are not working. Put a noid light (available from parts stores) or a low power 12v lamp like a 194 side marker lamp across an injector plug while cranking and see if it pulses. Check both injector fuses with an ohmeter. If you have spark, then you have reference pulses and the injectors should also be pulsed during cranking. You may have a defective ECM.
Sounds good, I'll dig up some kind of test light and try that out. I've got everything except fuel in the cylinder.
I wouldn't think the injectors are bad, they are used but were working when I took them out. I'll check the resistances while I'm at it.
Also thanks for the troubleshooting page agent, I'll run through that and double check some stuff if I have to.
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Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
Alright heres what I've found today...
Checked ohms on all injectors:
all 13 +- 1 ohm
Checked both banks for light during cranking and received a blinking light when cranking
Also checked each side of the injector harness to ground and received a light.
Checked fuses all checked fine. Forgot to ohm the terminal block tho, but nothing has blown so I wouldn't think any have shorted to ground.
I forgot to mention earlier when this first happened the first thing I replaced was the ignition module so that is new also.
I did notice when looking at the fuses that the inj2 fuse area looked burned up. Checked the voltage there and it was getting 12v, and when I put the fuse in (key on) I can hear something cycle. (fuel pump maybe)
Rick, is the pickup coil attached to the ignition module in the distributor? I was down in there again and didn't noticed anything out of place. How do I check to see if the ecm is receiving signals from that?
Thanks for the help guys!
Checked ohms on all injectors:
all 13 +- 1 ohm
Checked both banks for light during cranking and received a blinking light when cranking
Also checked each side of the injector harness to ground and received a light.
Checked fuses all checked fine. Forgot to ohm the terminal block tho, but nothing has blown so I wouldn't think any have shorted to ground.
I forgot to mention earlier when this first happened the first thing I replaced was the ignition module so that is new also.
I did notice when looking at the fuses that the inj2 fuse area looked burned up. Checked the voltage there and it was getting 12v, and when I put the fuse in (key on) I can hear something cycle. (fuel pump maybe)
Rick, is the pickup coil attached to the ignition module in the distributor? I was down in there again and didn't noticed anything out of place. How do I check to see if the ecm is receiving signals from that?
Thanks for the help guys!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,735
Likes: 412
From: WV
Put my money on the ECM. I worked on a car last week that had the same symptoms. When we cranked it the nod light would light , as soon as we used starting fluid it would run and the nod light would stop working. Pulled a ECM off a car on the lot and put it in, started right up and worked fine..ECM...WW
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
It a manual...
It maybe the ecm. If I have access to one from another vette, how easy is it to swap? I hadn't looked under the dash to see where or how tight it is to get it out.
It maybe the ecm. If I have access to one from another vette, how easy is it to swap? I hadn't looked under the dash to see where or how tight it is to get it out.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
The ECM is easy to access:
-drop the PS hush panel
-remove two screws that hold the ECM to the lower ledge
-drop the ECM
-remove the two large connectors and the CalPac
-put the CalPac into the "new" ECM
-plug in the new ECM and see if she starts up before installing under dash
To see if the ECM can fire the injectors you could hook the test light between the Blk/Pnk wire of an injector and ground. The light should normally be On and then flash off when the ECM fires the injectors, as the ECM pulls the Blk/Pnk wire to ground over that firing interval.
-drop the PS hush panel
-remove two screws that hold the ECM to the lower ledge
-drop the ECM
-remove the two large connectors and the CalPac
-put the CalPac into the "new" ECM
-plug in the new ECM and see if she starts up before installing under dash
To see if the ECM can fire the injectors you could hook the test light between the Blk/Pnk wire of an injector and ground. The light should normally be On and then flash off when the ECM fires the injectors, as the ECM pulls the Blk/Pnk wire to ground over that firing interval.
Last edited by 65Z01; May 28, 2008 at 10:45 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
Hmmmm, not the pickup coil if you're seeing a pulse at the injectors using a low voltage light (usually we use a noid light). Your injector ohms sound fine, but you really need to check them both hot and cold, kinda hard if you can't keep it running to bring it up to temp. Soooo, forgot the year, but I think I'd run a wire from the battery (positive side) to the ALDL, lower pin, left side, this will enable the fuel pump to run continously, by passing the circuit. You definetly have a fuel delivery problem...proved that by getting it to run on starting fluid.
That's what I'd do first!
BTW, the pickup coil is in the bottom of the distributor, even a crappy Haynes shows how to OHM test it, do you have a factory service manual...year specific?
That's what I'd do first!
BTW, the pickup coil is in the bottom of the distributor, even a crappy Haynes shows how to OHM test it, do you have a factory service manual...year specific?
Last edited by rick lambert; May 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
I don't have a factory service manual, I was hoping I didn't have to buy one b/c its my moms car. If I have to I guess I can buy one, or maybe borrow one from someone.
Her friend has a vette that he is working on right now (paint and restoring) so I may just swap out the ecm quick and see if that cures it. That way I'll know what to buy. If not I'll continue on with the checks as suggested..
Thanks for the help!!
Her friend has a vette that he is working on right now (paint and restoring) so I may just swap out the ecm quick and see if that cures it. That way I'll know what to buy. If not I'll continue on with the checks as suggested..
Thanks for the help!!
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
Well the easy swap didn't work. Still just turns over.
Quick question, I thought when the computer was pulsing the injectors they would fire? What goes into making those things work?
Quick question, I thought when the computer was pulsing the injectors they would fire? What goes into making those things work?
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
From: :45 minutes from everywhere / E-I-E-I-O
Substitute fuel makes it fire - fuel problem?
Spark - probably ok, since it fires with substitute fuel.
Last edited by schrade; Jun 2, 2008 at 10:25 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 0
From: :45 minutes from everywhere / E-I-E-I-O
I don't think it necessarily means the injectors are NOT working.
It could mean the connector to at least one of the injectors has a short, or isn't connected.
It could mean there's a vacuum leak.
It could mean the injector screens are plugged.
It could mean they are not compatible injectors.
It could mean the connectors are crossed.
It could mean a few other things too...
All it proves is what CAN work - air, and spark.
It could mean the connector to at least one of the injectors has a short, or isn't connected.
It could mean there's a vacuum leak.
It could mean the injector screens are plugged.
It could mean they are not compatible injectors.
It could mean the connectors are crossed.
It could mean a few other things too...
All it proves is what CAN work - air, and spark.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Montpelier VA
I don't think it necessarily means the injectors are NOT working.
It could mean the connector to at least one of the injectors has a short, or isn't connected.
It could mean there's a vacuum leak.
It could mean the injector screens are plugged.
It could mean they are not compatible injectors.
It could mean the connectors are crossed.
It could mean a few other things too...
All it proves is what CAN work - air, and spark.
It could mean the connector to at least one of the injectors has a short, or isn't connected.
It could mean there's a vacuum leak.
It could mean the injector screens are plugged.
It could mean they are not compatible injectors.
It could mean the connectors are crossed.
It could mean a few other things too...
All it proves is what CAN work - air, and spark.
The injectors should be compatible but then again I'm not positive. They are injectors off of my Lt-1 motor that were working when I swapped them out for bigger ones.
Thing thats funny about how it happened, it didn't sit very often. At most a week or two. But she had just driven it to the store and everything was fine. When she left it didn't start. Someone picked her up and they went back to pick it up later on and it fired right up and she drove it home. That was the last time it fired.
When I got to working on it, I verified everything. Got it to fire with starting fluid and figured 1 or more of the injectors were bad (originals) and swapped out for my set.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
One thing you know with certainty, no fuel is being sprayed out of the injectors even though current pulses from the ECM are occurring. Are all the other injectors plugged in when you do your injector test with your light bulb? They should be so that you know the ECM can source enough current to operate the injector coils. Get a test strip for determining if there is water in your gas tank and test the gas in the fuel rail, water is not fuel!