427 update
08-06-2008, 11:34 PM
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427 update
ok...I dropped off the deposit today for the 427
I'm going with a 232/238 cam
Heads are not determined yet. Either Dart or Brodix
I am changing the SR to the MR. I have a sentimental attachment to the SR as the car was a TPI car from day one, which at this point seems not to matter. The MR makes more sense
We are going 10.5 compression
Pat is estimating at least 550 CHP, we're thinking closer to 575.
This will be a unique engine as it will be the first one built on this new Dart block platform. Vic from Edlebrock is watching this build closely and intends to offer a motor based on the results of this build. Dart is also watching it closely to determine what they will do with this block.
Pat is going to try to get it done before Carlisle, so I can go there.
I am getting custom valve covers that will read "Pat Musi Performance" on one side of the cover, and 427 #1 on the other....
If anyone has any interest or questions, PM me. This is a new block, which from what Pat says, is almost impossible to get right now. He is starting the build soon...
I'm going with a 232/238 cam
Heads are not determined yet. Either Dart or Brodix
I am changing the SR to the MR. I have a sentimental attachment to the SR as the car was a TPI car from day one, which at this point seems not to matter. The MR makes more sense
We are going 10.5 compression
Pat is estimating at least 550 CHP, we're thinking closer to 575.
This will be a unique engine as it will be the first one built on this new Dart block platform. Vic from Edlebrock is watching this build closely and intends to offer a motor based on the results of this build. Dart is also watching it closely to determine what they will do with this block.
Pat is going to try to get it done before Carlisle, so I can go there.
I am getting custom valve covers that will read "Pat Musi Performance" on one side of the cover, and 427 #1 on the other....
If anyone has any interest or questions, PM me. This is a new block, which from what Pat says, is almost impossible to get right now. He is starting the build soon...
Last edited by jsup; 08-06-2008 at 11:39 PM.
08-06-2008, 11:49 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Definitely keep us posted. I really want to swap out my 383 for a 421 or 427 when funds allow. I bet that miniram coupled with some brodix heads would be a super combo!
08-07-2008, 08:30 AM
#4
I am interested in what heads he is going to recommend to get to that power level. 210 cc AFR would fit the bill!
232/238 sounds like a good cam. I see your dumping the SR, and going finally going with the MR.
Later!
232/238 sounds like a good cam. I see your dumping the SR, and going finally going with the MR.
Later!
08-07-2008, 11:35 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Good choice on ditching the Super Ram. Not that it is a bad intake... there are enough opinions on that, but I am currently working on a 427 SB that was running the SR. It was noticeably restricting power output on the dyno. My buddy opted for a HRE fabricated intake instead. I would like to hear how the Mini Ram turns out for you.
550 horse is what we are expecting too. We did not clear 480 with the SR on there though. I must say we were having oil problems too. Something weird about the windage tray and pan combo we had wasn't working right. Be careful of this! He bought a Stef’s pan and the HRE intake to fix the issues we had. We should be back on the dyno later this month to see how she does.
Remember these small block parts are not really intended for use with such a large displacement. Especially when it comes to heads and intakes. It can be a challenge to find things that really work out right.
Matt
550 horse is what we are expecting too. We did not clear 480 with the SR on there though. I must say we were having oil problems too. Something weird about the windage tray and pan combo we had wasn't working right. Be careful of this! He bought a Stef’s pan and the HRE intake to fix the issues we had. We should be back on the dyno later this month to see how she does.
Remember these small block parts are not really intended for use with such a large displacement. Especially when it comes to heads and intakes. It can be a challenge to find things that really work out right.
Matt
08-07-2008, 11:37 AM
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08-07-2008, 01:49 PM
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Just spoke to Pat, going with Dart Heads....The Pro 1 Aluminum.
300 CFM.......intake.......215CFM Exhaust....
300 CFM.......intake.......215CFM Exhaust....
08-07-2008, 02:18 PM
#14
08-07-2008, 05:00 PM
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08-07-2008, 07:17 PM
#16
You have me somewhat confused. This is right from the Dart website in regards to there "Dart Pro 1 Platinum 215cc Aluminum head".
Dart claims: 276 cfm at .600 lift (intake)
180 cfm at .600 lift (exhaust)
Are you telling me you are going to have to purchase these heads, and then get them ported to reach the above numbers? If that's the case, that's a waste of money. These heads have a 215cc intake port volume and they still dont flow in the 200cfm area on the exhaust side.
You can say that AFR heads don't perform all you want, but a friend of mine Jim who is "Vette Threat" on here just bolted on a set of 195 CC AFR's on his 393 LT1 and ran a 12.2@119 with a 2.03 60 foot. This wasn't ideal conditions what so-ever as it was hot outside and his race weight is around 3600 lbs. He is a believer that these heads perform.
As you know I am trying to help. I made suggestion's for you to go with the Miniram, and go with the 7/16 studs like my builder recommended and you did. Whether it was me or not, I don't care. At least the idea entered your mind. Port velocity is huge on a street motor. Just ask your builder.
Who knows maybe my 421 will perform like a dog with the little punny AFR's. But from what I have seen with these new heads on 2 cars, I doubt it, but you never know.
And don't worry, I am not busting your ***** either. If I wanted to bust your *****, I would cut and paste your pm to me and post it on here, or better yet forward it to AFR himself since he is a member on this forum and backs his products.
Goodluck with the project. Let me know how it performs, and how much fun it will be to tune the 7.0 liter. As it stands now, I am a lurker in the dark.
Do you really think you will see 550-575chp which is around 470-490 rwhp?
Later, and take it easy!
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 08-08-2008 at 09:28 AM.
08-07-2008, 07:39 PM
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You have me somewhat confused. This is right from the Dart website in regards to there "Dart Pro 1 Platinum 215cc Aluminum head".
Dart claims: 276 cfm at .600 lift (intake)
180 cfm at .600 lift (exhaust)
Are you telling me you are going to have to purchase these heads, and then get them ported to reach the above numbers? If that's the case, that's a waste of money. These heads have a 215cc intake port volume and they still dont flow in the 200cfm area on the exhaust side.
You can say that AFR heads don't perform all you want, but a friend of mine Jim who is "Vette Threat" on here just bolted on a set of 195 CC AFR's on his 383 LT1 and ran a 12.2@119 with a 2.03 60 foot. He is a believer that these heads perform.
As you know I am trying to help. I made suggestion's for you to go with the Miniram, and go with the 7/16 studs like my builder recommended and you did. Whether it was me or not, I don't care. At least the idea entered your mind. Port velocity is huge on a street motor. Just ask your builder.
Who knows maybe my 421 will perform like a dog with the little punny AFR's. But from what I have seen with these new heads on 2 cars, I doubt it, but you never know.
And don't worry, I am not busting your ***** either. If I wanted to bust your *****, I would cut and paste your pm to me and post it on here, or better yet forward it to AFR himself since he is a member on this forum and backs his products.
Goodluck with the project. Let me know how it performs, and how much fun it will be to tune the 7.0 liter. As it stands now, I am a lurker in the dark.
Do you really think you will see 550-575chp which is around 470-490 rwhp?
Later, and take it easy!
Dart claims: 276 cfm at .600 lift (intake)
180 cfm at .600 lift (exhaust)
Are you telling me you are going to have to purchase these heads, and then get them ported to reach the above numbers? If that's the case, that's a waste of money. These heads have a 215cc intake port volume and they still dont flow in the 200cfm area on the exhaust side.
You can say that AFR heads don't perform all you want, but a friend of mine Jim who is "Vette Threat" on here just bolted on a set of 195 CC AFR's on his 383 LT1 and ran a 12.2@119 with a 2.03 60 foot. He is a believer that these heads perform.
As you know I am trying to help. I made suggestion's for you to go with the Miniram, and go with the 7/16 studs like my builder recommended and you did. Whether it was me or not, I don't care. At least the idea entered your mind. Port velocity is huge on a street motor. Just ask your builder.
Who knows maybe my 421 will perform like a dog with the little punny AFR's. But from what I have seen with these new heads on 2 cars, I doubt it, but you never know.
And don't worry, I am not busting your ***** either. If I wanted to bust your *****, I would cut and paste your pm to me and post it on here, or better yet forward it to AFR himself since he is a member on this forum and backs his products.
Goodluck with the project. Let me know how it performs, and how much fun it will be to tune the 7.0 liter. As it stands now, I am a lurker in the dark.
Do you really think you will see 550-575chp which is around 470-490 rwhp?
Later, and take it easy!
It's absolutely amazing how people who are on the internet know more than professional engine builders, rocket scientists (aeronautic engineers) one member here I spoke to who actually builds real motors for a living and would never touch AFR, and other people with stellar, proven experience, top notch reputations, and industry recognition for decades of achievement.
Yeah, all you internet keyboard jockies know more than these guys...
Splain this brain surgeons, why is it that there are NO AFR heads in circle track cars, sprint cars, or professional drag cars. Those people who spend 40, 50, 60 K or more on motors aren't using AFR. They are using BRODIX and DART primarily.
They all must be idiots, right?
I have been told by real builders, not internet fkn know it alls, that the casting on AFR are worthless and never bolt up the same way twice There are clearance problems with push rods and guide plates and such. This is a result of **** poor casting. You can't machine out a bad casting. You all ain't gonna like that, bit I've gotten the same opinion from real builders who have no idea what the other had said. ALSO, the raw material is second rate next to Dart and Brodix, that the aluminum comes near a sharp corner and dents. Additionally, there are plenty of professional motor builders who believe the valve set up on both Brodix and Dart are superior.
So, I would suggest before you think I'm going to take any of this interweb advice for Keyboard know it alls, post up your credentials and experience in building motors and we'll talk.
Oh, and BTW, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy is a joke in Spongebob, and not evidence.
Those numbers from the Darts are with chamber porting and will cost me $1500 or less, and I will get the numbers.
Thank you.
08-07-2008, 07:43 PM
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Sorry for my rant above but I am just sick and tired of arm chair magazine readers.
THis is what I get for putting up what I thought would be of interest to C4 tech.
I'll take my project to other places where people can think for themselves and are actually interested in hearing, listening, and discussing.
I guess anyone who dares not to do an AFR Miniram setup is an idiot in this place. So this idiot is done...you all just keep buying the same old tired second rate parts and screwing them together with your one size fits all approach to every problem...I don't need the aggravation for morons...
THis is what I get for putting up what I thought would be of interest to C4 tech.
I'll take my project to other places where people can think for themselves and are actually interested in hearing, listening, and discussing.
I guess anyone who dares not to do an AFR Miniram setup is an idiot in this place. So this idiot is done...you all just keep buying the same old tired second rate parts and screwing them together with your one size fits all approach to every problem...I don't need the aggravation for morons...
08-07-2008, 08:00 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
08-07-2008, 08:08 PM
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