Stupid Cooling Question
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
Stupid Cooling Question
So anyway, I posted on here some of the specs of my new motor and it was suggested that I consider high performance radiator to the tune $600
So as I considered this possibility of this addition...During my pondering I spoke to a friend about it..and he asked a question....Does gas burn hotter in a 427 than it does in a 350. Now think about that. Just because MORE gas is burning does not mean it's burning hotter. Take hot sauce for example. If you take a teaspoon, it' no hotter than taking a cup. Just more of it
So, as I muse on this point I says to myself......self, that makes a lot of sense...now the earlier C4s had some cooling problems but 1990 had the new design slanted radiator. Both the 350 and 427 are small blocks. Gas burns at the same temp no matter what.
SO, why in the world would cooling be an issue? The t-stat opens at 160 degrees, and that's the end of it.
SO, can someone explain me the laws of physics and why I'd need more cooling.
Thanks.
So as I considered this possibility of this addition...During my pondering I spoke to a friend about it..and he asked a question....Does gas burn hotter in a 427 than it does in a 350. Now think about that. Just because MORE gas is burning does not mean it's burning hotter. Take hot sauce for example. If you take a teaspoon, it' no hotter than taking a cup. Just more of it
So, as I muse on this point I says to myself......self, that makes a lot of sense...now the earlier C4s had some cooling problems but 1990 had the new design slanted radiator. Both the 350 and 427 are small blocks. Gas burns at the same temp no matter what.
SO, why in the world would cooling be an issue? The t-stat opens at 160 degrees, and that's the end of it.
SO, can someone explain me the laws of physics and why I'd need more cooling.
Thanks.
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06
You don't "need" more. Very good analogy. As long as the same amount of coolant is flowing the same amounts of surface transfer occurs as long as the same area of surface is used.As long as your radiator is good it should not be an issue.You are using an LT1 block for the 427? There is a slight amount more surface area in the cylinder exposed to heat but I doubt enough to justify a new radiator. I would take the wait and see approach. Lets see what others say.....
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
You don't "need" more. Very good analogy. As long as the same amount of coolant is flowing the same amounts of surface transfer occurs as long as the same area of surface is used.As long as your radiator is good it should not be an issue.You are using an LT1 block for the 427? There is a slight amount more surface area in the cylinder exposed to heat but I doubt enough to justify a new radiator. I would take the wait and see approach. Lets see what others say.....
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Does Dart have a suggested radiator size(qts.)? It wouldn't hurt to ask them I suppose and then compare to what you have. Only 2 things will affect the cooling that is size and flow rate.
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
It's a crappy analogy. The gas doesn't burn any hotter but a lot more of it burns. What do you think makes the horsepower?
More gas burned equals more waste heat. More heat to get rid of.
Simple as I can make it without getting into Thermodynamics 101.
Tom DeWitt- feel free to jump in.
More gas burned equals more waste heat. More heat to get rid of.
Simple as I can make it without getting into Thermodynamics 101.
Tom DeWitt- feel free to jump in.
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Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
Does gas burn hotter in a 427 than it does in a 350. Now think about that. Just because MORE gas is burning does not mean it's burning hotter. Take hot sauce for example. If you take a teaspoon, it' no hotter than taking a cup. Just more of it
Gas burns at the same temp no matter what
SO, can someone explain me the laws of physics and why I'd need more cooling.
Last edited by MK 82; Aug 23, 2008 at 09:53 PM.
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
[QUOTE=MK 82;1566826085]More gas burned creates more BTUS. The extra heat must be removed. Your hot sauce analogy is absurd.
OK
Hence my question. I am not versed on thermal dynamics...
OK
It's thermodynamics John. Something you apparently need to brush up on!!
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Look, MK, I am not being absurd here from my thinking.
I'm not saying going from a 1.5L 4 CYL to a 454 big block and using the same radiator.
I am saying from one small block dimension, to another small block dimension. Generally the same size block with similar efficiency.
Is it realistic/likely that the standard 16 Qt system support both SIMILAR motors? They are not that far apart and cooling does not necessarily need to scale in a liner fashion.
Or does it?
I'm not saying going from a 1.5L 4 CYL to a 454 big block and using the same radiator.
I am saying from one small block dimension, to another small block dimension. Generally the same size block with similar efficiency.
Is it realistic/likely that the standard 16 Qt system support both SIMILAR motors? They are not that far apart and cooling does not necessarily need to scale in a liner fashion.
Or does it?
Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
John, creating horsepower requires fuel. A 600 HP engine uses more fuel creating that power. That process creates heat. Don't get hung up on temp. You need to be concerned with BTUs. A BTU is the amount of heat it takes to raise the temp of one pound of water one degree F. All that extra horsepower results in alot more BTUS.
Your big water pump will move more coolant, but if the radiator can't transfer the thermal energy to the air, you will run hot.
Eddie
Your big water pump will move more coolant, but if the radiator can't transfer the thermal energy to the air, you will run hot.
Eddie
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From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
John, creating horsepower requires fuel. A 600 HP engine uses more fuel creating that power. That process creates heat. Don't get hung up on temp. You need to be concerned with BTUs. A BTU is the amount of heat it takes to raise the temp of one pound of water one degree F. All that extra horsepower results in alot more BTUS.
Your big water pump will move more coolant, but if the radiator can't transfer the thermal energy to the air, you will run hot.
Eddie
Your big water pump will move more coolant, but if the radiator can't transfer the thermal energy to the air, you will run hot.
Eddie
Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Mr. Cooth strikes again. I said he will have more surface area in the cylinder thus slightly more heat to dissipate. Maybe MK 82 can supply the EXACT BTU difference between a 350 and 427 and how much more coolant surface area and flow to provide proper cooling is needed if he is so knowledgeable.Oh and include the cooling characteristics of the Dart block too otherwise he is blowing smoke.
Last edited by Redeasysport; Aug 23, 2008 at 10:20 PM.
Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
Mr. Cooth strikes again. I said he will have more surface area in the cylinder thus slightly more heat to dissipate. Maybe MK 82 can supply the EXACT BTU difference between a 350 and 427 and how much more coolant surface area and flow to provide proper cooling is needed if he is so knowledgeable.
Last edited by MK 82; Aug 23, 2008 at 10:21 PM.
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06
You came here and called the OPs analogy "crappy" fuel does burn at the same temp and I asked you to back up what you said. You showed no cooth in your answer to him. I am not attacking just observing and asking for info on what you say.
Melting Slicks
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From: Palm Beach
It's called attacking the post and not the person. Something you need to learn.