Oh I agree with you Will, I know HV pumps are not evil or anything, I just feel there's something wrong with my pump/pan/tube combo that's causing most likely some cavitation at 4800RPM.

I was given the short with the pan bolted on and I had no reason to check it. I figure just to cover the bases, I'll go with a combo I know works and position the pickup tube myself to ensure everything is good. I'm pretty confident that will solve the high RPM pressure drop however the WOT smoking issue....that's another story.

We'll see what the leakdown numbers will say and go from there.

It's a real shame too because the car is running great and pulling MUCH harder than my last combo which made 405RWHP.

 

Are you telling me that you have no idea what type of rings were installed? You have no idea what type of oil pump was installed? No idea what type of pick up is being used and how it is set up? Did you just buy a short block from someone and forget to ask about these things? I find it hilarious that you know all about your cylinder head flow numbers and literally nothing about the engine itself. To think that time and time again you recommend NOT having a performance engine shop work on people’s engines and yet, you did.

Let's face it, the lack of windage tray is not the problem (engines have been running without those for far too many years to just start causing issues), the (maybe) blocked oil return passage (while being an issue) is not the problem; the problem is obviously in the ring package. The first question is was a low tension oil ring used? The next question is was the proper finish used on the cylinder walls (the finish does change with different ring packages)? And lastly, was the proper piston to wall clearance achieved? If you knew the answer to these questions you would know what was wrong.

Another thing that's interesting to me is that you continually come into threads that I have posted in (you know which ones) and start talking as if you are qualified to dispute what is being posted (I was under the impression that you were also an experienced engine builder). Here, you have proven that you didn't even keep track of, let alone, assemble your own short block... I feel that this speaks volumes for your credentials.

 

Actually he is well educated about engines, but he isn't an engineer.

 

Wow, who sh$# in your cornflakes

I don't have time right now to add depth to that 2 dimensional post nor point out all off your MANY inaccuracies, false assumptions, false accusations and just plain silliness of your latest attack but don't worry, I'll be back later to clear things up for you and set you straight.

 

I wonder if any damage to bearings? sure sounds oil being sucked up to top-end is good possibility here. I really dont recommend a high pressure oil pump. unless engine's lower end has been setup 200,000 mile loose ( I will rephrase this as to a friction cheat, used during drag racers)

 

What does this mean?

 

Check your intake gaskets to make sure they arentsucking oil through them and that you have baffles in your breathers.


on having to be an engineer to assemble a motor.

 

I just figured it out.

He didn't capitalize it. Holiday Inn'er, like "I'm not an engine builder or engineer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night".

 

Nothing worth caring about, he has a chip on his shoulder the size of Mt Everest whenever AFR is mentioned...

 

Thanks for clarifying this saying. New to me!

Now, if we could just move along with removing the excess baggage that is brought into each of these threads, we might have a decent technical discussion.

i.e. check your ego and past baggage at the door....

 

You hit the nail on the head my friend.

 

I updated my post, just returning the chip though.

 

point taken, PM sent to Zix, explaining scenrio! I will, from this point, forward, keep posts factual.

 

Enjoy:




POST#25

POST#1
Did you just come into a thread and forget to read about these things?

I find it hilarious that someone who prides themselves as an engineer just "assumes" everything is as he is being told. I know what my heads flow because I actually had them flowed not becuase of what I was told they flowed. They only way to TRULY no what's in my motor is to take it apart myself and measure it all. I have since confirmed by taking apart my oil pump that is in fact a SV pump.

Once again you are NOT dealing with specifics. I recommend that an engine built for a street car should be built by a shop who has a good track record doing so. I have seen too many times guys who have great success at the track in 8 second and faster cars, build average to crappy street cars even though they have engineering degrees as well.

Yet GM still insisted on putting one and so does Lingenfelter? Hmmm...

Interesting......... you have come to a conclusion you feel is obvious without reading all the information that was provided to you.

Really? So now we have to submit out qualifications to Corvette Forum or would you rather I provide video evidence documenting the hundreds of dyno pulls, races, and test drives I have been a part of in the past 20 years both professionally and non-professionally.

True story: There was an Astro Van that had an engine vibration for 3 years/40000 miles that many techs could not figure out. They consulted with GMs engineers, even had a couple come down to check the van. 4 engines later still a vibration.......A 2nd year apprentice figured out the problen is leass than 12 hours.......ME.

I am not claiming to have seen/know everything or even close to it but I know what I know and I know what I have seen. Experience outweighs theory and there is always someone has has seen or knows something you don't no matter WHO you are or what you do for a living. Have an open mind to suggestions.

I have never claimed to have built a short block except for a few stock 3100s/3400s. By your own admission, if I know so little why were you yourself, under the impression I was an experienced engine builder judging by my comments?


Here YOU have proven your arrogance..........your bias towards me and AFR by not completely reading the entire thread prior to attacking my merits, claims and experience....and I suppose someone who does not build there own shortblock yet does everything else related to his car has no right to comment on engines being built and their projected perfomance? You don't have to be a lawyer to know OJ was guilty......

Present facts in a debate, don't keep mentioning you're an engineer and we're not like that gives you an automatic pass to being right. It actually shows weakness and desperation when you resort to that.

Well at least we do agree on one thing: The information in this thread DOES speak volumes for someones credentials alright.

 

In what way does this help? I would not expect these types of comments from those who are professionals with some education, let alone one who has been said to be an expert in the field. Adding your experience may provide some additional insight if presented with some professionalism, empiricism and specificity. This would include the application that the motor is being dedicated, and providing relevant examples with explanation (not just a "left turn" car, or "track only" of any nature).

 

So have you found out what the problem is?

I did not read all of the threads but I had a bad oil consumption once because the intake was not sealed well on the heads and the heads would suck oil from under the intake when draining back to the drain holes.

Gunked up my valves pretty bad, pretty quick..

 

especially, if you have a oil return problem!

, there was a 327, a customer changed to a single plane intake, and right away accused a 25,000 engine was sucking oil now. funny, right after a back yard mechanic, cam , gear drive install, and intake change, it all starts.

 

Well said.

 

Nope, I read all of your, I don’t know crap and called you on it. What’s in the water up there in Canada?

So you went to the trouble and expense of getting the heads put on a flow bench and yet you don’t care what type/size of ring package was installed? In hindsight does that look like money that could have been better spent? Here we have the cost of the internet baller bragging rights! Is there any other way to demonstrate your ignorance; this sort of stuff might fly on an ASTRO PANEL VAN, but surely won’t cut it with real engine building. Ladies and gentle men I now submit to you as evidence why you should never let an internet baller spec your engine (or give you advice); you will end up with a set of heads that you can brag about the flow numbers on the internet, sitting on top of a piece of junk that magically smokes…

Here we go again with YOU not dealing with specifics (we have no idea what parts are in this engine). Tell me since you SAW this scenario unfold first hand; what was the mission statement of the build and where did it come up short? Judging by you amount of communication with had your engine builder tell me if you can (which I doubt), where did the communication break down and result in a combination that didn’t fit the customers needs. If you want to be specific; start being specific on your end or shut up about it!

Where did I say it wasn’t preferred? I agree with GM and Lingenfelter and recommend one too. What I said was that’s not your problem; now if you had spent more time researching your build and less time ball swinging you heads and flow numbers on the forum, perhaps you would have found a more competent builder; since you know so much you should know all the questions to ask right? There is a positive note here; at least your misfortune demonstrates why you should not let internet ballers spec your engine, and stands as a glaring example of your colossal ignorance. Hopefully this just saved somebody time, money, and effort!

The conclusion here is obvious; you wanted to impress you friends with head numbers, flow numbers, and dyno numbers and wound up with a duck, and the news gets even worse, scrap metal prices are down.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why you do not take advice from an internet baller, no matter how much he misrepresents his experience.

Hey when you’re done with that Astro Van can you come take a look at my lawn mower? Then tell me how that has anything to do with building a performance engine and giving advice on doing so?

You told me, seeking advice on heads, cam, hard parts ect from a performance engine builder is illegitimate (you’ve witnessed it not work all these times right); however, talking to a guy that sweeps the floor around a dyno and who’s highlight of his technical career is solving a vibration issue in a ASTRO VAN is the way to go! Ladies and gentlemen, again, why you don’t take advice from an internet ball swinger.

Well here’s the point here chief, you are giving advice on topics that you admit you have very little experience in; so stfu and listen and maybe I can teach you something about what I do. In the interim, refrain from giving advice as if you know anything.

What the **** is this the twilight zone? GO back up to the above post where you tell me about your 20 years of experience and everything you’ve seen; how the hell was I not suppose to get the impression that you knew what you where talking about when you yourself brag about it? So which is it, do you admit to knowing nothing, or all that you’ve seen? I’m confused now as to the purpose of that statement. If by this comment, you concede that you really do know nothing, I apologize for all my comments.

You are exactly right, you have no business making recommendations on building engines and giving advice since it doesn’t matter that you know OJ was guilty; that doesn’t change **** since you don’t know your *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to the justice system (why don’t you step up and put him in jail then if you do); the same is blatantly true when it comes to engines.

I put facts up, fact after fact after fact; and guess what. You brochure experts chose to ignore them when they didn’t fit your view of the little brochure world you live in. The fact that you chose to ignore the facts that I put up, does not mean that they were not posted; it also speaks volumes to your ignorance when you find yourself in this situation (a really awesome engine under your hood).

Thank you; I couldn’t agree more. You are in fact; an idiot that doesn’t know much about building a performance engine when it doesn’t come out of a catalog or brochure.



Here's the problem; in too many of these threads I add my REAL fking experience (mission statements and strategies for achieving them for various types of applications) and get told where to go with it by some shmucks that admit they haven't even built an engine (or has done one in his basement)! I have repeatedly done exactly what you asked and all these guys do is pull out a catalog and start reciting material straight from the manufacturers brochures (probably the only thing they can do since building an engine is out of the question). Since nobody here wants to have that discussion everyone results simply spewing b.s all over the place and when called on it the threads get locked or deleted.

You want to know why the above is relevant? It's relevant because we have idiots all over this forum posting like they're Sonny fkin Leonard. That's my problem, when you go around telling everyone that asks a legit question about an engine an answer, as if you are an engine builder (because you diagnosed an ASTRO VAN once upon a time) I don't care for that, and this isn’t just about Vette Threat; there is a whole slew of them here. If you want to reflect upon your experiences with a particular part that you didn't even install I would go for that (but you will not have any way to dispute anything that’s posted; you can simply post what your experience was); but this constant wave of b.s on everything from camshaft specs to part limitations by a bunch of guys that build a few engines in their basements (which was wholly unimpressive in terms of power) is out of this world. Constantly I hear things like; "don't let someone that works on race car engines work on your engine"...why so you can have the above, some mystery machine that no one knows what's actually in there and has more problems than not (but at least you can talk flow numbers why your car is belching smoke)? It’s a good thing you have those flow numbers, how else are you going to push smoke out of the exhaust. That’s the real defining theme of this whole thread; here we have an “expert” that was more worried about what his cylinder heads flowed than what type of parts and work where going into the bottom end. This crap of “I told the builder I wanted a standard tension oil ring” isn’t choosing the parts for the engine; where is the size you want, what type of ring package do you want, what type of finish do you want on the cylinder wall? Since supposedly I can learn from you Vette Threat (and you want to talk specifics), what parts did you select and why? I’m all ears waiting for your response; since the engine’s smoking I would think that if you did choose, you chose wrong.

On an off note since it was brought up I will go ahead and waste my time posting this information again! Does anyone here realize that as an engine builder I have to build what my customers need? It's not always, spend all my money and make all the hp you can (which seems to be the assumption of many on this board; mostly because, they have never turned a wrench on a purpose built engine). See that's the big trick, purpose built does not mean we just blindly start screwing parts together out of a summit catalog...which passes for qualifications as expertise on this board. Time and time again I've posted detailed posts about the process that we go through to ensure that our customers get what they need out of our engines; now I guess that means we can't put together an engine for anyone else but it really shows that you want to have your cake and eat it too. When I play your game and tell you exactly what you don’t want to hear it’s dismissed as too high of a level. Then when I lower the level and tell you what you don’t want to hear it’s, well that’s just a bunch of generalized crap; which is it? I can tell you how poorly built some of these monstrosities are in either language if you so choose.

But let’s cut the crap; standing next to a dyno, watching professionals work, and talking crap on the corvette forum, doesn’t qualify you as anything more than the 16 year old kid that comes into my shop with all his hopes and dreams; and no knowledge. If that’s all you’ve got; you’ve got nothing!

 

Canton sent me the wrong pan and has caused delays. I feel confident the high RPM oil pressure issue will be solved with the new pan and playing with the oil level but the oil consumption is a long shot.

I think my last attempt before I consult my engine builder about warranty would be to try resealing the intake just for the hell of it.

Problem is I've been installing intakes on all kinds of engines including LT1s for over 10 years and although everyone screws up sometimes I've never had a single issue on any of them so I really doubt I did screw it up this time.

I was very careful and really took my time with this one. Nothing really new here that I haven't done a hundred times before problem free.