do roller rockers for that kind of money
Vortex Rammer
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,729
Likes: 190
From: Custer, WI
Vortex Rammer
Does anyone have the Vortex Rammer for their C4 from http://www.breathlessperformance.com? Does it improve performance at all?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 542
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From: middle of Illinois
Oh boy, here it comes... This question comes up from time to time on here, and most people will present all kinds of scientific explanations why it doesn't work and why ram air at street speeds is impossible and all this, but I have one on my car. The theory behind it is that cool dense air from in front of the air dam under the radiator is forced up and into the air filter. Ask any LS1 f-body about that concept, it's called the "free ram air mod" on their forums because it's as simple as cutting a piece of plastic and plugging the stock inlet slot. My experience with my Trans Am (R.I.P.) told me the concept is valid, so after trying to figure out how to turn my vette's stock airbox upside down and giving up, I ordered this one from Breathless. Could it be coincidence that my times improved after I added it? Yes. Did I remove it and see if my times went back up? No. Is it worth the $ Breathless wants for it? Not even close, in my opinion. But I don't plan on taking it off any time soon. I posted a little bit on here about the frustration of dealing directly with Breathless, I'll see if I can find it and link it for you or anyone else interested.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: middle of Illinois
I swapped my cut stock airbox for the vortex rammer several months ago. It definately didn't hurt any, and it seems to put up a little better numbers. Maybe a whole tenth, maybe half a tenth, depending on weather. Seems to be a bit more sensitive to temperature changes with the vortex setup. I'd have to say there are probably better ways to spend the money Breathless wants for it. As for quality/durability, I'm a little disappointed. It's thin plastic. A little stronger than a milk jug, but not as strong as I'd expect. And the customer service was bit of let down too. I placed my order directly with Breathless over the phone and was told they had the product in stock and it would ship that day (Monday) and arrive by Friday. By Wednesday, I had no shipment confirmation in my email, so I called Breathless. I was told that after I placed my order, that same day they got a big order from one of their vendors and shipped all the stock they had. Mine was placed on backorder indefinately until they could make more. A week later, they finally shipped it but refused to even pay for expedited shipping to make up for giving the part I already payed for to another customer. In fact, they refused to acknowledge that there was anything wrong with the way they handled my order.
I'm not saying don't use their product, it works fine. I'm just saying, if I was running a company selling an overpriced piece of flimsy plastic, I'd at least try to treat my customers a little more fairly. Be prepared for poor customer service, and don't expect the vortex airbox to feel as solid as the rest of the plastic on the car.
As for other ways to spend the money, I'm kinda wishing I'd have gone with some long tube headers or a torque converter or electric water pump now. I'm thinking either of these would have made more of a difference in my 1/4 mile time, and I have to do them this winter anyway to compliment the top end work I'm doing.
As for MPG, at some point you will have to decide if you're willing to give up a couple miles per gallon to make any serious gains. But these LT1/LT4 cars do amazingly well on gas even with some pretty serious hp. 400+ crank hp and 20+ mpg highway is not a completely unreasonable target for these cars. The newer LS engines are even more incredible.
One more piece of real world experience, if wheelspin is at all a concern get a nice set of drag radials or other sticky tires as soon as you can. If you're driving it every day, the drag radials might be a bit impractical, but there are still some fairly sticky options that will give you 15k+ miles and outperform the original type tires that came on the car by a long shot.
I'm not saying don't use their product, it works fine. I'm just saying, if I was running a company selling an overpriced piece of flimsy plastic, I'd at least try to treat my customers a little more fairly. Be prepared for poor customer service, and don't expect the vortex airbox to feel as solid as the rest of the plastic on the car.
As for other ways to spend the money, I'm kinda wishing I'd have gone with some long tube headers or a torque converter or electric water pump now. I'm thinking either of these would have made more of a difference in my 1/4 mile time, and I have to do them this winter anyway to compliment the top end work I'm doing.
As for MPG, at some point you will have to decide if you're willing to give up a couple miles per gallon to make any serious gains. But these LT1/LT4 cars do amazingly well on gas even with some pretty serious hp. 400+ crank hp and 20+ mpg highway is not a completely unreasonable target for these cars. The newer LS engines are even more incredible.
One more piece of real world experience, if wheelspin is at all a concern get a nice set of drag radials or other sticky tires as soon as you can. If you're driving it every day, the drag radials might be a bit impractical, but there are still some fairly sticky options that will give you 15k+ miles and outperform the original type tires that came on the car by a long shot.
Thread Starter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,729
Likes: 190
From: Custer, WI
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
Likes: 3
From: Reading PA.
I guess I should have checked the ET before and after I made the swap. Lots of guy's don't like it because the Plastic Box that houses the Filter Element warps due to underhood heat. I have mine on about 3yrs. and no problems. Just gotta keep that cone filter clean and oiled regularly. Pipe
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 3
From: Coatesville PA
I just ordered one and based on the bad reviews was surprised that it showed up exactly what I ordered and right on schedule(guessing you already saw but they give 10% off to forum members on their website). Bit of snow on ground right now and more to come tonight so not installing it anytime soon. Unfortunately I'm installing mufflers and an x pipe in addition to a big mouth air dam(either shove more air in or to help cool the engine, gotta do somethin) so next time I head to the drags I wont be sure if the rammer itself made a difference. Although I will say, I took off my airbox and drilled two 2" holes in either side of the opening to allow more air to come in(this was soon as I got my car before I knew of anything online) and put in a k&n filter. And although I know its got to be doing something, i felt absolutely no gains nor heard it sucking more air as you can hear with most k&n filters. Far as the price is concerned, I dont think half the aftermarket stuff for cars is worth it considering what you get, but I learned quick gotta pay to play.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: middle of Illinois
Not really.
For the Vortex, you have to cut through the fiberglass radiator shroud. Sounds easy, but it's more of a pain than you expect. A pocket knife or box cutter ABSOLUTELY won't do it, a dremel with cutoff wheel takes forever and is hard to control. I used the dremel with a 1/8" drill bit and used it like a roto-zip.
Roller rockers don't require any fabrication if you get the right ones that fit under the valve covers. Even if you get some that don't fit, it's just an excuse to put some chrome valve covers on. You'll have to remove an alternator brace (if I remember right) from the drivers side to get the valve cover off. The passenger side looks easier, but on mine the EGR crap is a little annoying to get past. I don't know why I haven't removed that stuff yet. Once the valve covers are off, the rocker arms are right there on top, 8 on each side. Replace them one at a time, start it up, get rid of the ticking, put the covers back on, test drive.
Couple bits of advice, disconnect the alternator and tape over the wire before you remove the drivers side valve cover. Blown fusable links suck. And before you put the valve covers back on, clean the gasket mating surface really well and smear on a really thin layer of RTV before you put the gasket in the cover. It helps hold the new gasket in while you fumble with getting the valve cover past the EGR garbage.
I'd do the rockers first. In fact I did. They will make a measurable difference.
For the Vortex, you have to cut through the fiberglass radiator shroud. Sounds easy, but it's more of a pain than you expect. A pocket knife or box cutter ABSOLUTELY won't do it, a dremel with cutoff wheel takes forever and is hard to control. I used the dremel with a 1/8" drill bit and used it like a roto-zip.
Roller rockers don't require any fabrication if you get the right ones that fit under the valve covers. Even if you get some that don't fit, it's just an excuse to put some chrome valve covers on. You'll have to remove an alternator brace (if I remember right) from the drivers side to get the valve cover off. The passenger side looks easier, but on mine the EGR crap is a little annoying to get past. I don't know why I haven't removed that stuff yet. Once the valve covers are off, the rocker arms are right there on top, 8 on each side. Replace them one at a time, start it up, get rid of the ticking, put the covers back on, test drive.
Couple bits of advice, disconnect the alternator and tape over the wire before you remove the drivers side valve cover. Blown fusable links suck. And before you put the valve covers back on, clean the gasket mating surface really well and smear on a really thin layer of RTV before you put the gasket in the cover. It helps hold the new gasket in while you fumble with getting the valve cover past the EGR garbage.
I'd do the rockers first. In fact I did. They will make a measurable difference.
