93 Starting issue
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 4
From: Dorr MI
93 Starting issue
I did use the search before posting this, but couldn't find the problem so I thought I would see what you guys think.
Car has been is storage all winter, ran fine when I put it away. Started fine when I last started in on New Years Eve. Went to start it yesterday it would turn over and not start, smelled gas, so I held throttle to floor and it started, ran crappy, but eventually cleared up and ran fine. Tried starting it a couple more times and it started fine.
Today I went out to start it, and it did the same thing. Only this time as soon as it wouldn't start I held the throttle to the floor, then let up and it started fine. Everytime I try holding the throttle to the floor then letting off it starts fine. If I don't hold the throttle first, it turns over but no start and gas smell.
Last summer I replaced ICM, Coil, put an MSD Opti on it and replaced the TPS and the IAC. My guess is the TPS is bad, but I thought I'd see what you guys think, or if you've seen this before.
Car has been is storage all winter, ran fine when I put it away. Started fine when I last started in on New Years Eve. Went to start it yesterday it would turn over and not start, smelled gas, so I held throttle to floor and it started, ran crappy, but eventually cleared up and ran fine. Tried starting it a couple more times and it started fine.
Today I went out to start it, and it did the same thing. Only this time as soon as it wouldn't start I held the throttle to the floor, then let up and it started fine. Everytime I try holding the throttle to the floor then letting off it starts fine. If I don't hold the throttle first, it turns over but no start and gas smell.
Last summer I replaced ICM, Coil, put an MSD Opti on it and replaced the TPS and the IAC. My guess is the TPS is bad, but I thought I'd see what you guys think, or if you've seen this before.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
You need to hook up a FP gauge and observe how fast it leaks down after you turn off ignition. The fuel pressure should leak down very slowly. You could have a leaky injector(s) or a bad FPR. I would suspect leaky injector that is "flooding" a cylinder(s) after ignition off. So look to see if the pressure gauge goe's down fairly quickly.
Since it runs fine after you get it started, I would not suspect that the components you replaced would be causing this issue.
If it is your FI's, get ahold of FIC on this forum and he will get you set up. They are very easy to replace on '93.
How many miles on your current injectors ?
Since it runs fine after you get it started, I would not suspect that the components you replaced would be causing this issue.
If it is your FI's, get ahold of FIC on this forum and he will get you set up. They are very easy to replace on '93.
How many miles on your current injectors ?
Last edited by MikeC4; Mar 1, 2009 at 08:12 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 4
From: Dorr MI
I'll check the leak down tomorrow when I get home from work. As far as I know the Injectors are the originals. 86K on the car. I just thought maybe by holding the gas pedal down and releasing it before trying to start it I was resetting the TPS. I remember there was a way to do it when I put the new one on and I thought that was it. (For the ECM to learn it) Usually I keep all the instructions for that kind of stuff in a notebook so I can refer to it again, but I couldn't find it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
not sure if '93 is same as '94 :
From '94 FSM Book 2:
The Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module (EBTCM) must learn the TP sensor idle position voltage with new component(s) installed. This is necessary to ensure effective engine torque reduction during ASR events. The procedure requires a Tech 1 scan tool or CAMS unit and will be described using a Tech 1.
A. Ignition off.
B. Connect Tech 1
C. Ignition on
D. Follow menus to reach ABS/ASR features
E. Slect "F5:TPSENSR LRN"
F Press (up arrow) to begin learn procedure
G. Wait for Tech 1 to indicate complete
H. Ignition off.
I. Disconnect Tech 1
To me, it reads like the EBTCM has to learn something specific about that particular new TPS. There's no adjustment of the TPS and the TPS doesn't "do" anything other than send its signal to the EBTCM.
From '94 FSM Book 2:
The Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module (EBTCM) must learn the TP sensor idle position voltage with new component(s) installed. This is necessary to ensure effective engine torque reduction during ASR events. The procedure requires a Tech 1 scan tool or CAMS unit and will be described using a Tech 1.
A. Ignition off.
B. Connect Tech 1
C. Ignition on
D. Follow menus to reach ABS/ASR features
E. Slect "F5:TPSENSR LRN"
F Press (up arrow) to begin learn procedure
G. Wait for Tech 1 to indicate complete
H. Ignition off.
I. Disconnect Tech 1
To me, it reads like the EBTCM has to learn something specific about that particular new TPS. There's no adjustment of the TPS and the TPS doesn't "do" anything other than send its signal to the EBTCM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 4
From: Dorr MI
I checked FP and it seems fine. It went to about 44lbs when I switched the key on , and has stayed there well over an hour now. So I don't think it's a leaky injector.
I will try the method of setting the TPS. I have a Tech1, but right now the console is out of the car as I am cleaning the climate control buttons.So I don't have a lighter to hook it to.
I have read that if the ECT sensor is reading low, it can dump alot of fuel, causing it to flood, but since it's so cold here in Mich, I am doubting that is the problem.
I guess I will keep trying to sort it out. In the meantime if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.
I will try the method of setting the TPS. I have a Tech1, but right now the console is out of the car as I am cleaning the climate control buttons.So I don't have a lighter to hook it to.
I have read that if the ECT sensor is reading low, it can dump alot of fuel, causing it to flood, but since it's so cold here in Mich, I am doubting that is the problem.
I guess I will keep trying to sort it out. In the meantime if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
I agree, looks like your FP is fine. So let's rule out "fuel" for the moment, and move to "air" .........
I am now thinking that your IAC is stuck in the closed position, which would only allow a very small amount air through the "nearly" closed butterfly. When you push on the accelerator, you are opening up the butterfly, allowing ample air to be drawn into the intake.
Quesrions:
- Maybe your IAC is sticking when the engine is cold ?
- Will the engine start if you depress the accelerator pedal just a little bit?
- Have you ever replaced or cleaned your IAC and TB ?
I hope some others can chime in here, as I have my own way of thinking about things. And it is hard being an armchair mechanic
EDIT:
I see that you replaced IAC, but that doe's not mean it is not faulty.....check the IAC connection carefully first.
I am now thinking that your IAC is stuck in the closed position, which would only allow a very small amount air through the "nearly" closed butterfly. When you push on the accelerator, you are opening up the butterfly, allowing ample air to be drawn into the intake.
Quesrions:
- Maybe your IAC is sticking when the engine is cold ?
- Will the engine start if you depress the accelerator pedal just a little bit?
- Have you ever replaced or cleaned your IAC and TB ?
I hope some others can chime in here, as I have my own way of thinking about things. And it is hard being an armchair mechanic
EDIT:
I see that you replaced IAC, but that doe's not mean it is not faulty.....check the IAC connection carefully first.
Last edited by MikeC4; Mar 2, 2009 at 07:55 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 4
From: Dorr MI
Hey MikeC4 thanks for all your help. Guess I'm gonna have to get out all the testing equipment and see what's up. Frustrating part is that it started on New Years Eve by just reaching in and hitting the key. Now a month and a half later, it's gone no where and hasn't had anything done to it and I get no start. Maybe it's time to sell it and my C1 project and buy a C5.
