Engine Replacement for my 84
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Only reason I said that is 9 times out of 10 when you send the motor out and DIY it winds up costing more than a crate in the first place and honestly I just dont have faith in rebuilders these days and know many of them.
-Its the little stuff (mistakes we learn from) like torquing down a cap that appears seated properly yet once you turn the key you find it wasnt, which rods face what way, things like that....Sure he could learn it but still. If I had to do it all over again Id buy somethign brand new even though I like (or used to anyway) building them.
Thank You China
-Its the little stuff (mistakes we learn from) like torquing down a cap that appears seated properly yet once you turn the key you find it wasnt, which rods face what way, things like that....Sure he could learn it but still. If I had to do it all over again Id buy somethign brand new even though I like (or used to anyway) building them.
Thank You China
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 456
Likes: 3
From: Sumner Texas
Where did he say he's pulling his heads off? You told him too...but other than that I don't believe he was pulling them.
Personally I understand the point that your trying to make and I don't disagree with your point. And I do agree that he needs to research it before making is mind up. I'm being just as truthful as you but I'm on the other side of the fence.
Would I like to learn how to tear my internal apart ...yes. Do I have a book that tells me how to do it...yes. But when push comes to shove I really don't have the time. So for me I either send it to a machinist or buy a new block. Those options have warrentees, my workmanship with zero experience as none. So I'd be pretty upset it I had to tear it down a second time. Anything else on the car I don't have a problem with.
To the op, if you do it Docs way that great, but just know that your not gonna do it in a day, and at times you will be frusterated. Then come back to the forum and pm all the guys that told you to do it yourself...
Personally I understand the point that your trying to make and I don't disagree with your point. And I do agree that he needs to research it before making is mind up. I'm being just as truthful as you but I'm on the other side of the fence.
Would I like to learn how to tear my internal apart ...yes. Do I have a book that tells me how to do it...yes. But when push comes to shove I really don't have the time. So for me I either send it to a machinist or buy a new block. Those options have warrentees, my workmanship with zero experience as none. So I'd be pretty upset it I had to tear it down a second time. Anything else on the car I don't have a problem with.
To the op, if you do it Docs way that great, but just know that your not gonna do it in a day, and at times you will be frusterated. Then come back to the forum and pm all the guys that told you to do it yourself...
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,700
Likes: 1,667
From: moraga ca
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20,974
Likes: 261
sure do. I would say I knew about short blocks, and long blocks when i was in about 2nd grade, when I watched my dad, and uncles rebuild, and change race motors all the time. 
The guy is looking for help, and getting confused. The smart thing is to buy a built motor to begin with period. No talk of taking that junk block to a shop to have them suck up labor on it. He is just stuck on the fact he bought heads for it already.
and my previous post on his
A nice crate motor OVER AND DONE WITH IT. Just enjoy the car , and have fun. Before you know it, you'll wish you had done this or that. Be realistic in what you want, and more importantly who you are. If you like fun, and performance cars, you'll need to steer clear of anything stock on it, unlesss it has the z51 pacakge which might need new bushings at this point anyways.
good luck.
The guy is looking for help, and getting confused. The smart thing is to buy a built motor to begin with period. No talk of taking that junk block to a shop to have them suck up labor on it. He is just stuck on the fact he bought heads for it already.
and my previous post on his
A nice crate motor OVER AND DONE WITH IT. Just enjoy the car , and have fun. Before you know it, you'll wish you had done this or that. Be realistic in what you want, and more importantly who you are. If you like fun, and performance cars, you'll need to steer clear of anything stock on it, unlesss it has the z51 pacakge which might need new bushings at this point anyways.
good luck.
Last edited by pologreen1; Jun 13, 2009 at 02:54 AM.
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Rockville Maryland
sure do. I would say I knew about short blocks, and long blocks when i was in about 2nd grade, when I watched my dad, and uncles rebuild, and change race motors all the time.
The guy is looking for help, and getting confused. The smart thing is to buy a built motor to begin with period. No talk of taking that junk block to a shop to have them suck up labor on it. He is just stuck on the fact he bought heads for it already.
and my previous post on his
A nice crate motor OVER AND DONE WITH IT. Just enjoy the car , and have fun. Before you know it, you'll wish you had done this or that. Be realistic in what you want, and more importantly who you are. If you like fun, and performance cars, you'll need to steer clear of anything stock on it, unlesss it has the z51 pacakge which might need new bushings at this point anyways.
good luck.
The guy is looking for help, and getting confused. The smart thing is to buy a built motor to begin with period. No talk of taking that junk block to a shop to have them suck up labor on it. He is just stuck on the fact he bought heads for it already.
and my previous post on his
A nice crate motor OVER AND DONE WITH IT. Just enjoy the car , and have fun. Before you know it, you'll wish you had done this or that. Be realistic in what you want, and more importantly who you are. If you like fun, and performance cars, you'll need to steer clear of anything stock on it, unlesss it has the z51 pacakge which might need new bushings at this point anyways.
good luck.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 456
Likes: 3
From: Sumner Texas
You're wasting your breath. There are several folks here for which "budget" is not a word that is in their vocabulary. I'm very happy for those who have plenty of funds for their toys.
Since the OP has decided on an assembled short block, I'm sure there is plenty of good advice here from people with lots of experience in laying out big bucks rather than doing things for themselves. My experience set doesn't include that. I would only recommend that he stay away from the cheapie short blocks from the local assembly line "Engine Warehouse." There are short and long block merchants who do throw togethers with really cheap components. Putting in one of those would be less chance for success than doing it himself.
I've done many in frame overhauls and built lots of motors from a bare block on an engine stand. Everything from grocery getters to balanced strokers. Building engines is what I love, so to me, a car is nothing but a platform for a nice engine.
BTW, to the person that indicated that the OP's original car had a "junk block:" The original engine in that car was based on a four bolt improved block. That is a pretty good starting point that properly prepared is good for whatever he can do with it normally aspirated with no bottle. Once you decide to bore it anyway, most every factory block is what he would call a junk block. What I call a junk block is one that's cracked or damaged in some way that makes it scrap iron.
Best of luck inex1 and enjoy your project.
Doc
Since the OP has decided on an assembled short block, I'm sure there is plenty of good advice here from people with lots of experience in laying out big bucks rather than doing things for themselves. My experience set doesn't include that. I would only recommend that he stay away from the cheapie short blocks from the local assembly line "Engine Warehouse." There are short and long block merchants who do throw togethers with really cheap components. Putting in one of those would be less chance for success than doing it himself.
I've done many in frame overhauls and built lots of motors from a bare block on an engine stand. Everything from grocery getters to balanced strokers. Building engines is what I love, so to me, a car is nothing but a platform for a nice engine.
BTW, to the person that indicated that the OP's original car had a "junk block:" The original engine in that car was based on a four bolt improved block. That is a pretty good starting point that properly prepared is good for whatever he can do with it normally aspirated with no bottle. Once you decide to bore it anyway, most every factory block is what he would call a junk block. What I call a junk block is one that's cracked or damaged in some way that makes it scrap iron.
Best of luck inex1 and enjoy your project.
Doc
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 4
From: Clifton Park NY
Otherwise I will not waste my time trying to defend what I wrote with your obvious intent to be that critical. Since we all know that you can't change out the block without removing the heads.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 4
From: Clifton Park NY
You are a super group of people who really have helped open my eyes. I slept on it last night and will be going the direction of a new short block. Why? Honestly, I do not feel comfortable with my skill level and really want to get the car back on the road before the summer is over. Now I really need your advice on what short block to purchase. The reason I did the upgrade and installed the new heads was because the valve guides were shot and thought it was a good idea to port the intake and needed the throttle bodies rebuilt anyway, I would not have done this if not for the bad valve guides. Therefore, performance is not my main goal but dependability is. So guys what block looks like a good fit?
Check out some of the sponsers.
The GM blocks are common, darts are nice (bit pricey), What your budget for this? Any possibilty on future upgrades such as NOS?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 456
Likes: 3
From: Sumner Texas
Did you or did you not write, " He is changing is heads ANYWAYS?" Your statement makes the reader think, "He never said anything about changing his heads"... You did! And if your that critical he already had changed his heads (read his first post), but this time around would re-use his heads, not change them again!
Otherwise I will not waste my time trying to defend what I wrote with your obvious intent to be that critical. Since we all know that you can't change out the block without removing the heads.
Otherwise I will not waste my time trying to defend what I wrote with your obvious intent to be that critical. Since we all know that you can't change out the block without removing the heads.
My mistake. I should have wrote that "he has to remove and replace the heads anyway." From your statement I indeed did not know that you understood that a short block is received less heads. Sorry!
Doc
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
Did you or did you not write, " He is changing is heads ANYWAYS?" Your statement makes the reader think, "He never said anything about changing his heads"... You did! And if your that critical he already had changed his heads (read his first post), but this time around would re-use his heads, not change them again!
Otherwise I will not waste my time trying to defend what I wrote with your obvious intent to be that critical. Since we all know that you can't change out the block without removing the heads.
Otherwise I will not waste my time trying to defend what I wrote with your obvious intent to be that critical. Since we all know that you can't change out the block without removing the heads.
A "short block"......that term means Block, Crank Rods, Pistons, Cam......AND NO HEADS of any sort
If you get a motor with Heads assembled, it is now a "LONG BLOCK"
So if we are talking about getting a "short Block" (the whole thread is referring to a Short block) then the heads will have to be either taken off his old block or source heads from somewhere else..
All Logic would point to His NEW HEADS being taken off his Block....
He could be nice and donate those heads to whomever gets his old block....but I'm pretty sure...almost 99% sure he would remove those new heads and place them on his newly sourced "SHORT BLOCK".......
Sorry man, Sure I made assumptions based on educated guesses, Shoot me for it....Can anyone give a "Reasonable" alternative??
So Doc stating "he is changing his heads anyways" is 100% correct unless....unless the OP has no clue what a Short Block is......and then in that case Doc is in no way at fault.
Terminology and definitions have to be in agreement else we cannot have discussions. We might as well type a string of miscellaneous words in a string.....throw in a few exclamation points....
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Rockville Maryland
Dude, A short block is devoid of ANY HEADS........
A "short block"......that term means Block, Crank Rods, Pistons, Cam......AND NO HEADS of any sort
If you get a motor with Heads assembled, it is now a "LONG BLOCK"
So if we are talking about getting a "short Block" (the whole thread is referring to a Short block) then the heads will have to be either taken off his old block or source heads from somewhere else..
All Logic would point to His NEW HEADS being taken off his Block....
He could be nice and donate those heads to whomever gets his old block....but I'm pretty sure...almost 99% sure he would remove those new heads and place them on his newly sourced "SHORT BLOCK".......
Sorry man, Sure I made assumptions based on educated guesses, Shoot me for it....Can anyone give a "Reasonable" alternative??
So Doc stating "he is changing his heads anyways" is 100% correct unless....unless the OP has no clue what a Short Block is......and then in that case Doc is in no way at fault.
Terminology and definitions have to be in agreement else we cannot have discussions. We might as well type a string of miscellaneous words in a string.....throw in a few exclamation points....
A "short block"......that term means Block, Crank Rods, Pistons, Cam......AND NO HEADS of any sort
If you get a motor with Heads assembled, it is now a "LONG BLOCK"
So if we are talking about getting a "short Block" (the whole thread is referring to a Short block) then the heads will have to be either taken off his old block or source heads from somewhere else..
All Logic would point to His NEW HEADS being taken off his Block....
He could be nice and donate those heads to whomever gets his old block....but I'm pretty sure...almost 99% sure he would remove those new heads and place them on his newly sourced "SHORT BLOCK".......
Sorry man, Sure I made assumptions based on educated guesses, Shoot me for it....Can anyone give a "Reasonable" alternative??
So Doc stating "he is changing his heads anyways" is 100% correct unless....unless the OP has no clue what a Short Block is......and then in that case Doc is in no way at fault.
Terminology and definitions have to be in agreement else we cannot have discussions. We might as well type a string of miscellaneous words in a string.....throw in a few exclamation points....
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Rockville Maryland
Chuck
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Rockville Maryland
You're wasting your breath. There are several folks here for which "budget" is not a word that is in their vocabulary. I'm very happy for those who have plenty of funds for their toys.
Since the OP has decided on an assembled short block, I'm sure there is plenty of good advice here from people with lots of experience in laying out big bucks rather than doing things for themselves. My experience set doesn't include that. I would only recommend that he stay away from the cheapie short blocks from the local assembly line "Engine Warehouse." There are short and long block merchants who do throw togethers with really cheap components. Putting in one of those would be less chance for success than doing it himself.
I've done many in frame overhauls and built lots of motors from a bare block on an engine stand. Everything from grocery getters to balanced strokers. Building engines is what I love, so to me, a car is nothing but a platform for a nice engine.
BTW, to the person that indicated that the OP's original car had a "junk block:" The original engine in that car was based on a four bolt improved block. That is a pretty good starting point that properly prepared is good for whatever he can do with it normally aspirated with no bottle. Once you decide to bore it anyway, most every factory block is what he would call a junk block. What I call a junk block is one that's cracked or damaged in some way that makes it scrap iron.
Best of luck inex1 and enjoy your project.
Doc
Since the OP has decided on an assembled short block, I'm sure there is plenty of good advice here from people with lots of experience in laying out big bucks rather than doing things for themselves. My experience set doesn't include that. I would only recommend that he stay away from the cheapie short blocks from the local assembly line "Engine Warehouse." There are short and long block merchants who do throw togethers with really cheap components. Putting in one of those would be less chance for success than doing it himself.
I've done many in frame overhauls and built lots of motors from a bare block on an engine stand. Everything from grocery getters to balanced strokers. Building engines is what I love, so to me, a car is nothing but a platform for a nice engine.
BTW, to the person that indicated that the OP's original car had a "junk block:" The original engine in that car was based on a four bolt improved block. That is a pretty good starting point that properly prepared is good for whatever he can do with it normally aspirated with no bottle. Once you decide to bore it anyway, most every factory block is what he would call a junk block. What I call a junk block is one that's cracked or damaged in some way that makes it scrap iron.
Best of luck inex1 and enjoy your project.
Doc
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
OP means "original Post" Or "Original Post'er" depending on the context of the sentence.
And yes, only a few would assume you weren't keeping the Heads....
And if you are willing to drop that $2K.......that amount of cash will/should get you something really nice.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
As far as saving up more????
This one only cost $4600......
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/World-...lock,8735.html
So a cheapy small block rebuilt from Kragen for ~$750.........Or that 454 beast for $4600.......Somewhere in the middle lies where you need to be...but I'd be estimating much less than $2000.
This one only cost $4600......
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/World-...lock,8735.html
So a cheapy small block rebuilt from Kragen for ~$750.........Or that 454 beast for $4600.......Somewhere in the middle lies where you need to be...but I'd be estimating much less than $2000.