Dannyboy needs to start his own, separate thread.

Mike, to your issues, seems like you have several different problems.

Sometimes when you install a windage tray on the main bolts, if the tray isn't properly positioned, the crank can hit and bind against it. Then the engine can't be turned over.

But before assuming that's the problem loosen all the rocker nuts, then try turning the engine. It could be a valve hitting against a piston.

If the engine will manually turn with all the rocker nuts loosened, then that's the cause of the engine being locked. If it still won't turn, you'll need to drop the oil pan. It's easiest to turn the engine will all the spark plugs removed.

Next, the engine probably wouldn't fire because either you have the distributor installed incorrectly or the lifter preload not properly set. If it's the distributor you must remember that the engine needs some amount of ignition advance to start and run.

Anything between, say 4 and 10 degrees of advance BTDC will get it started. After it's running, you set the final timing using your timing light. If you don't have the timing set in thar range, the engine will always ALMOST start, but won't. If you have the advance set too high, the engine will crank really slowly, laboring to do so.

Now you need to find #1 TDC ON THE COMPRESSIONS STROKE.

Once you solve the locked-up problem, remove the distributor and the #1 spark plug. Either stick your finger in the #1 spark plug hole or twist a piece of paper towel and stick it in the hole. Bump the engine. With your finger feel for pressure; that's tell you the #1 is on the compression stroke. Using the paper, bump the engine until the paper pops out; that's tell you the #1 is on the compression stroke.

Now look down at the TDC mark on the damper; is should be aligned between 4/10 degrees BTDC - NOT AT TDC or ATDC; remember you need some amount of advance.

You do know how to distinguish between BTDC and ATDC on the timing tab, right?

Now drop the distributor back in and align the rotor tip with the #1 spark plug terminal inside the distributor cap. Replace the #1 spark plug.

If the lifter preload is set correctly and all else is plugged in/connected properly, the engine will fire.

As I've written more times than I can remember, the lifter HAS TO BE ON THE BASE CIRCLE of the camshaft lobe when setting the lifter preload. It can't be on the lobe's ramp or nose - base circle only!

Next, you've fallen into the trap that so many other have; following the directions shown in so many manuals. Those directions will have you moving from one side of the engine to the other, setting this one and that one. The procedure is so error prone that most guys fail to set their preload correctly by following it. Do yourself a BIG favor and use the IC/EO (Intake Closing/ Exhaust Opening) method.

I have a long file on how to adjust lifter preload; if you need it let me know.

Hope this helps and keep us posted.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Thank you jake, your right about the lifter preload being the reason for non start. I've dealt with that issue several times since i've owned this car. I spent alot of time researching, and don't have a problem finding tdc, or installing distributor {Mostly because trial and error} The second day, after loosening all rocker arm nuts and starting over, it came close to starting {maybe would've if timing was a little advanced} As i was adjusting and turning the key, it seized, locked up tight. Now, i've previously stated that i thought i might have been the cause of this nightmare, by over-tightening the main caps, but after speaking with the company that sold me the engine, they suggested that i start searching for the cause. Today, i dropped the oil pan, came out pretty easy, the oil cooler tube was pretty tough, but i was able to check out the bottom of the engine. I removed the three caps that i had "touched" The bearings were beautiful, not a scratch, perfectly in place and dripping with oil. I put them back hand tight, and removed the torque converter bolts while i was down there, just to rule out the tranny. With the rocker arm nuts loose, no spark plugs, torque converter bolts removed, starter removed, and the caps that i touched, seemingly ok, i still can not turn this thing. BTW, i was able to get to the torque converter bolts by wrestling the flywheel, one tooth at a time with a screwdriver. I think it's a good thing that the engine never fired up, it would be tough for me to "prove" to the seller that it was not my fault if it was running. Don't get me wrong, if this turns out to be my fault, i'm going to have to eat all this money and hard work. But if it's not, well, thats what warrantees are for. Tomorrow, I get my azz back under that car, I hope it don't rain.

Mike

 

so its not frozen if you got it to turn to get the torque converter bolts?!?!. did you try to turn it over with the plugs out?

 

With all the rockers loose or even removed so that no valve is being opened (eliminating any valve spring pressure resistance) AND all the spark plugs removed, the break-away torque should be really low. That is if there is no mechanical interference issue such as a rod hitting the block or cam, etc.

I'd say the break-away torque should be less than 25 ft/lbs.

Did you check to be sure you didn't install one of the main caps backwards? Most caps have an arrow cast into them which should face forward. Check that the rear main isn't installed backwards, too.

There are also several different things I'd try:

Remove the serpentine belt so that no accessory can turn.

Try turning the engine manually in the opposite direction

Loosen the three center main caps, leaving only the #1 and #5 torqued - see if the engine will manually turn.

Check that the main caps are installed on the correct main journal; they should be numbered.

Check that no cap is installed in a cocked position. Run your fingers at the parting line between the main cap and the block's main web to feel that the caps are aligned with the block.

While under the car, shine a light up onto the cylinder walls and look for any verticle scratches in the bore. This could indicate a ring isn't recessed in the piston.

Remove the distributor and stick a long screwdriver down the intake manifold opening. Try turning the oil pump to se if it's locked.

Any chance the flexplate or one of its bolts is binding against something?

How about the harmonic damper; any chance it's hitting the frame or steering rack?

The spark plugs being out eliminates hydraulic lock-up so what's left is mechanical interference. I can't think of anything else right now. I'll let you know if I come up with anything else.

There's GOT to be a reason; problem is finding it.

I hope this helps.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Hey jake,
Thanks for taking the time to help. It is definitely mechanical interference. Yesterday was the first time i removed the main caps, i did them one at a time, and put them back exactly the way they were. When i changed the bolts { to replace with studs to hold oil baffle } I did not remove caps, i didn't even loosen the two outside bolts { four bolt main } I need to get to the bottom of this today, if i don't get back to work i'm gonna starve. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks,
Mike

 

Is it possible you installed the windage tray too high up; too close to the crankshaft? If it is mounted too high, the crank could be hitting it and stopping its rotation.

I've had that happen to me on a few engines and had to lower the tray for the needed clearance. My instances occurred when the engine was being built on the engine stand though.

I used double, Lock-Tited nuts/lock washers to lock the tray in the correct position. One pair of lock washers and nuts on either side of the tray.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Well, this thing is a short block again. Tore it all back down, was about to pull it, but it's raining again. Still jammed up, don't want to spin. I'm shipping it back to the seller, so they could figure out a way to blame their defective engine on me. They had the nerve to tell me that when i turned the key, fuel dumped into the cylinders washing away the lubrication. Thats why it's jammed up, and it's not their fault. Does that sound like a load of S#%T to anyone else?

 

Amen to that.

 

Ok, i have a progress report. First let me say everybody was correct in telling me not to buy a shortblock from some no name company. I thought, as long as it's rebuilt, and comes with a warrantee, everything would be ok. I was wr wr wr wr wrong. Just because something has a warrantee, does not mean that they will honer it, it's mind blowing, the depths people will sink to, just to avoid responsibility. Just because someone advertises "Each engine built by one person, with pride" Does not mean it's actually true. This guy is in S.Carolina, shipping them out of a warehouse in texas. Although most people take them for granted, the internal combustion engine is a beautiful contraption, with hundreds of moving parts, operating in sync, with clearances so tight, they need to be measured with a micrometer. Something that precise cannot sit in a warehouse for years, then be shipped across the country strapped to a pallet. ANYWAY, the main cap, that the oil pump bolts to broke apart, and big chunks flowed through the pump, and into the engine. When i removed the engine, and tore it back down, it was still locked up, but the second day, without doing anything except rotating it on the stand, and looking for SOMETHING, it freed up, and began turning smoothly. I think all of the movement dislodged one of the "Chunks" and thats what was holding it up. Thats the only thing i could think off, because without any lubrication, or anything else done, this thing is turning. Problem now is, this thing is useless if i can't bolt the oil pump to it, the threads are no longer there. My question now is this, has anyone out there ever just replaced main caps? I'm told that i CANNOT replace it, that it was cast with that particular block, and to take one from another block would be unacceptable. Has anyone out there ever replaced a main cap? If so, whats involved?

Thanks,

Mike

 

Mike,
You can change a main cap.
However, the engine will need to come completely apart, and be properly allign honed to be sure the top cap is concentric with the bottom half of the main saddle.
Sorry man. Bad news for sure, but a good life lesson. Happened to me too many years ago. I am now a firm believer in dealing with local machine shop talent only.

 

Thanks pete, theres a pretty reputable shop a few blocks from me, think i'll mosey on over. Amazing how, even as we get older, some of us STILL have learn things the hard way.

 

Where are you located? Maybe someone local can recommend a place.

 

I'm in Clark, NJ. The guy i mentioned before has a shop very nearby, he has a small performance shop, i believe he does the machining too. I heard good things about him, i went there a few months ago and talked to him {Before i desided to go the Budget route}

 

Not sure how close that is to me (18634), but if you strike out locally, let me know. I am tight with 3 engine shops, and will do what I can to help, if you need it. I know a thing or 2 about assembling them as well.

 

I agree!

There's a TON of bad information being spread around as if it's gospel. This business of not being able to change main caps is yet another example. Biggest problem is recognizing it when you hear/rear it.

But yes, you need to have the block line honed for the new cap(s).

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!