I am hoping to build a race engine for my C4 over the next year(s) but I have to meet a certain HP limit (NASA TTA class). I want to build something with the best power curve but I dont want to make too much HP (usually not an issue). I have done lots of research on cams and such and want to try some things out in a simulator to see if what I learned has any truth and I can actually build what I want. Anyone know of a good dyno simulator where I can give head flow data and cam specs and end up with an estimated crank HP? Im hoping not to spend too much (free would be nice) but I also want it to be accurate so I dont waste money on parts I cant use.

 

Hands down the best engine simulator for the money is Performance Trends "Engine Analyzer". Very easy to use and HP accuracy is akin to how accurate of info YOU input in to it.

The EA v3.2 is a good sim for the occasional engine builder and fairly cheap for what you get. You can input flow numbers or use one of the hundreds of (pre flowed) cyl head models already loaded. Same options for camshafts. It's a nice program for $100.00

The EA v3.5 "Pro" is about as good of a sim program as you can buy. Kind of pricy for the home builder at $470.00

Nothing that's free (heck even in the same $$$ range) can come anywhere close to what these sim programs offer.

Will

 

Thanks Will. I am not so interested in knowing the peak HP as just messing with stuff. I am having my stock 113 heads ported by Lloyd Eliott and he is going to help me with a cam selection too. I am restricted by class rules to use the factory heads and I have to stay within 8.7 lbs per HP. I want to mess with cam timing, duration, and LSA to see what gives the best power curve profile, and then move that profile up and down depending on if I need more power or less to meet my goal. Will the $100 version let me pick cam specs or just preloaded ones?

 

[QUOTE=Kubs;1572102018]..... the best power curve but I dont want to make too much HP (usually not an issue)....... QUOTE]

I have no input on your original question.....but I think the most interesting question is what is the definition of the "best" power curve

..sounds like you have a grasp on this question, but I think it is really the most interesting, especially if the goal is more than simply making maximum power..

 

[quote=LT4BUD;1572111227]Since I am limited on HP I want to not just have that power at the peak but I want to reach the peak quickly and then have that maximum power over a longer RPM range. I want my graph to be an upside down U, not an upside down V.

 

Engine Analyzer Pro is the way to go for what you want. It can trace your power curve in as little as 100 RPM increments, then graph it so you can see the curve, not just the numbers.

It can also be extremely helpful in seeing the EFFECT a certain change will make. You can enter minor variations, such as changing the cam's lobe separation angle from 112 to 111 just to see what difference it makes. Same thing with most of the other engine components. I have that program and it's amazing how versitle it is.

Accuracy is about 7% which is the closet I've seen compared to competing programs..

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Yes, Absolutly.

The EA v3.2 ($100) will allow you to input any cam specs you desire. Once you have inputted the specs you can save them in a special "camshaft " folder in the program so it's easy to recall that cam grind info for later sims. BTW It has the same type of folder for cyl heads flow number info you input into the program as well.

It even has quick change options so after you have inputted all your cam specs you can advance or retard the cams intake centerline by simply pulling down a seperate menu (in the upper right hand corner of the screen) and then run the sim over again.

You can store a number of sim dyno runs and later directly plot them against each other. It's even defaulted to plot the previouse dyno run against the latest anyway.

You can plot valve timing events from one camshaft against another as well.

Like I said it's a very good program for the money.

Here is a link to some sims that I have done for CF members over the past few years. This is the older v3.0 program BTW. All of them are set to compare 2 dyno sims on one page. They are from a 396LT4 cam comparison, 383 SBC exhaust system comparison, 355 SBC cam comparison and a few others I think.

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ne%20Analyzer/

This is the end result you can expect to see from the EA program. As for accuracy, its as good as the infomation you put into it. In actual test where I first sim a motor in EA and then actually built and dyno'd it the EA is usually optimistic on the peak HP numbers by a 5-10 %. Its usually a bit low on the very low end of the TQ curve but not always. Seems much better with street oriented engines than with say big high HP oval track of drag motors. Your HP and TQ peaks will be dead on RPM wise so its a great comparator tool for cam/powerband calculations.

The last actual real life comparison I did with the program was on the engine I built for CF member "blackharleyman", a 383 LT4. EA estimated peak hp of 545@6300rpm. I figured EA was a bit optimistic by maybe 10HP. Doing a couple of educated driveline loss guess', I figured it would actually make 420-430RWHP on a Dyno Jet if I was correct. Even with some ignition problems the car made 421RWHP dead on 6300RPM. Without that High RPM ignition miss who knows.....
Will

 

Will that is exactly what I am looking for. Thanks for the info! If I want to use a single plane EFI with an LS throttle body would I just model it like a carb intake?

 

Yes. That is what I did when I sim'd the engine I wanted to build for my personal 92LTX as I wanted to compare the power band of the Victor intake against the short runner LTX intake....

I picked the Super Victor 2925 and then I picked the appropriate dual 58mm TB that I started out with.

It worked out great on the sim (and in real life). I am one of the very few people to go thru the trouble to convert and run a SP carb intake on an LTX.

You can pick whatever SP intake you want to use and then a single 80-90mm LSX TB.
Will

 

Thanks. I will be using the Accel EFI intake and an 80mm LS throttle body.

 

i need help on this one, i have this software installed longtime ago...i still have it
but i canno open the prebuilt engines,i want to know how much power will i make when my setup is ready..i tried to open the included engine files and i couldnt !
HELP !

 

any help ? ? ?

 

-Calderone

When you go to the "Engine Library" button at the top left of the screen, if the menu of pre loaded engines dosen't drop down... I can only assume that you have a bad load.

Call Performance Trends, give them you resgistration number and tell them it loads messed up with no engine's.... They will send you a new down load or send you a new disk.
Will

 

yes every engine appears !
but i cant load them

 

Hey i was able to load the engine !
i wanted to customize it to check how much power my 355 will make with the upgrades im goin thru but there was so much details that i ignore that i couldn't go thru it

 

And don't forget the Chain Calculation function. You can plug in a range of variables, like camshaft lobe separation angles from, say 104 to 116, and the program will automatically calculate the torque and hp for each one. Then you can overlay each one over the over and see how LSA effects the power curve. You can do that with many other variables too.

EA Pro gives me more information that I can actually, fully understand: Mach numbers of airflow, residual exhaust %, thermal efficiency, valve toss, knock index, on and on. Over 80 different readings.

Just wish that sucka hadn't been so expensive.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

[QUOTE=Kubs;1572114880

Since I am limited on HP I want to not just have that power at the peak but I want to reach the peak quickly and then have that maximum power over a longer RPM range. I want my graph to be an upside down U, not an upside down V.[/QUOTE]

I understand and agree with what you are "trying" to say.....

...but I suspect you need to think a little more about torque, horsepower, gear ratios, track design, etc...if you are truly trying to define the optimum..sure don't want to get into a torque vs horspower discussion, but I think that is where the discussion would lead to..

BTW I think you are on the right track with persuiing this software package..good luck with it and keep us updated

 

Dynomation5 software.

Lloyd

 

I thought that's what I was saying, or at least trying to. With one of the better programs you can enter different specs for all the power producing parts and construct a power curve that fits your needs.

You can enter certain parts, (heads, cam, CR, rockers, whatever) then tweak them to either raise or lower power and torque, as well as move the power band around to where you want it.

Saves a lot of trial and error and, according to Performance Trends manual, the results you see will be within 7%.

Jake

West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!

 

Thanks for all your help guys. I will have to save up for one of these programs. Sounds like EA is the best option. I will let you all know what I come up with and why, as soon as I find out.