I want to build a 383 around 450hp max. There are so many kits where do I begin? I was hoping some of you guys who have already done this can chime in. Some say forged some say not needed? I was thinking cast crank, I beam rods and forged pistons? The kits are unlimited. does anybody have a kit part number they used with good results? I don't need the best parts made nore do I want junk somthing in the middle quality wise (remember 450hp max)
This is a 92 LT-1 that will need a .030 oerbore. I would like as complete a kit as possible also plan on reuseing stock flexplate and just remove balance weight.

 

Don't bother with a "kit".
Let me explain. Kits are a collection of parts from different manufacturers tossed into a box, and if you are lucky they are somewhat balanced.
My suggestion is to build your own kit.
Crank
Rods
Piston
Rings
Bearings

Then drop them off for balancing.
I have always had trouble with kits.
You will have a perfect rotating assembly, and it will likely be similarly priced to the budget kits out there.

I have to run to a kids birthday party, but will chime in later with specific recommendations.
I am currently building 2 of them, so I can help out with recommendations.

 

Pete, are the blocks your building spoken for yet. Just wondering still interested in one.

 

I have a few people interested, but I did not take a deposit, or any rock solid commitments.
I just got a call that the crank is finished at the balancer, so I will have 1 ready to assemble in a week or so.
I have 2 more blocks lined up, 1 is finish machined, and the other is likely oing to be dropped off in a couple weeks.
I am hoping to be able to actually walk through my garage soon, and not trip over engine blocks

 

twice

Here is some help

LINK.

 

For your goals, (assuming no NOS or boost) I would do the following:

Scat 9000 crank (external balance)
Scat 5.7 I beam rods
Sealed power hyper pistons
Sealed Power Moly rings
Clevite P series rod bearings
Clevite P series main bearings

Have the crank neutral balanced in the front. This will cost an extra $100 but will allow the stock neutral balancer.
Have the crank balanced in the rear to a stock flywheel or flexplate.

Roll in the threads on the rod bolts, and have the big ends checked, and touched up as needed.
* Most rod manufacturers send them out tight, and that is no good.

You don't need Plasma Moly rings. Moly is good enough.

If you insist on forged pistons, you can upgrade, but hypers will be fine for your needs.

 

1.If I internal balance the crank can't I just remove the weight on the flexplate?

2.What does roll in the threads on rod bolts mean?

3.Will Hyper pistons be ok at 425-450hp with a little safety margin built in?

Thanks for your help guys! Nice thread on the rebuild.

 

1) No You are making the nose Neutral, and balancing the tail to the stock flexplate. This saves money. Neutal balancing the crank costs much more.
2) Roll threads means to torque, loosen 3x to knock the microscopic sharp edges off the threads, resulting in an accurate torque. Simple process.
3) In my opinion, yes. I make 600 ft lbs at the wheels, and 450 hp (at the wheels) and have been running hypers for 15 years. You can certainly upgrade to forged, but it is not needed for what you are doing. Forged buys piece of mind, and insurance. None of the parts you buy will have a guarantee, regardless of price.

 

I've just gone thru this same process and found the following: Pete's part list is very close to mine though I did opt for forged pistons. Too many people told me that it buys a little extra insurance if there's any issue with your tune and/or detonation. OTOH, new vette's come with hypers from the factory.

Pete, I gotta wonder about having the front neutral balanced (at $100)...Why not just put a 400-balancer on the front and balance to that? (I was going to use an 80001 PowerForce 6 3/4" balancer with a Scat9000 crank.) If you're really set on front neutral balancing, have you got something against the 10352375057E Eagle crank? It's an ext rear/int front crank -- specifically for 1-pc rear main LT1/L/T98s.

And, what does "get the big-ends checked" mean? Checked for what?

 

I like to neutral the front because external balancer aftermarket is limited, and usually expensive. By going neutral, the owner of the engine has the option of using (or reusing) an inexpensive balancer if they choose.

I am not a fan of Eagle. I don't wish to bash their products, but I have seen to many quality issues to make me a fan. I don't care how many people love them, and have had success. Every time I open an Eagle box, I must re-machine something.


When most budget rod manufacturers make, and finish machine a rod, they do it quickly. The rod hone warms the metal, resulting on the big end growing from the heat. They do not allow them to cool to room temperature for an accurate reading, they just send them down the assembly line.
After the rod cools, and the threads are rolled in, it is not uncommon to see the big end be as much as .001 tight.
Considering there is only about .0018 oil clearance, this could reduce it badly.
Never, ever, trust a new rod, of any brand to be on size.

All of the above is why I do not recommend buying a rotating assembly from a catalog, and bolting it in. Buying from a machinest will allow him to tweak everything perfectly, for a more satisfied customer.

 

Is there anything "wrong" with the 80001 balancer I mentioned above? It's 1/2 the price you mentioned for neutral balancing the front, plus it includes the balancer.

Your suggestion adds cost -- unless it prevents clearance/fitment issues in some way.

 

I am not familiar with the balancer you are referencing, so I cannot fairly comment. Crank needs to be balanced anyway, and making the nose neutral only adds $40-$50
to the cost of balancing the entire rotating assembly.
Regardless, I don't care to debate how I do things, just offer my build experiences to the op. It is how I do it, and have had much success with. It's just my .02 cents.

 

Greg,
It looks like you deleted your post, but I will address your questions.

In my area, machinests charge:

$100 to balance all of the rotating assembly (usually to with 1 gram or less), less the crank
$100 to balance the crankshaft after a bobweight is established.
To add 1 slug of Mallory to the nose of the crank is $40-$50

So really, adding 1 slug turns a $200 balance job into a $250 balance job.

Most prefer to get as much of the balancing weight inside the crank, rather than hang it on the ends of the crank.

My method is a good compromise of that, and cost.
An external balancer for $75 is the exception, rather than the rule. The price of the balancer you quoted makes me suspect of it, but that really isn't fair to do. If it is a good balancer, than that makes a cost effective way to balance the nose of the crank, assuming the end user wants that type of balance job.
I have found that most guys want full internal balance, because they read it on the internet. In that case, it is usually best to step up to a forged crank.

 

Yeah,,,I started to dig for more clarification but decided to debate that issue with my engine builder. And, that the OP could do the same with his.

Thanks for the comments you went ahead and posted though. Part of the reason I decided to negate my post was because I didn't want to belabor your efforts -- which are always well intended.

Thanks again!
gp

BTW, the balancing costs posted above are pretty close to what I'm hearing locally. The funny part was almost everyone was afraid of my DMF setup (because they were unfamiliar with it). I kept digging and finally found a builder who wasn't ready to run like a girl who'd just seen a cockroach.

 

I guess it boils down to budget, parts preference, and balancing preference.
Or overall "balance" pardon the pun
10 ways to shin a cat, and all 10 probably work on street motors.
My main point was not to trust the out of the box stuff. Even high dollar parts could use a "tweak" here and there, and you cant get that from a box of parts you buy from ABC Speed Shop.

 

Yeah, all the local builders I talked to tell stories where pre-balanced kits weren't very close. To get the best possible results, I decided was to have the exact parts all together and balanced by a local shop.

Part of that plan was sprung out of necessity because I need some fairly big dishes after having heads shaved to 56cc. (To bad I hadn't planned on a bottom end at the time!). Between the crank, pistons, balancer, and rods, it would have been impossible to find my kit prepackaged.

If the OP also needs dished pistons (depending on the heads used), I now recommend the inverted dome config. Seems like that would make for the best quench (anti-detonation) configuration. Then, I further reduced my choices to 4032 alloy forged pistons. When you look at rod length, ring widths, and piston weights, things really get fun -- if you make an honest effort to sort it all out! (In my case, it led to one specific piston that would perform best for me.)

BTW, there are people who like and will use the Eagle cast stuff but I saw a few posts that made me cringe. On top of that Eagle's website says that most of their cast cranks are good to 400hp. Considering my build, that's not enough wiggle room. (Yeah they up'd it to 500hp when I called, but Scat's ratings show more leeway. Also, making a verbal guarantee w/o being willing to state it in writing -- is weak.)

Scat crank and rods for me. Though I really, really wanted to use the new SRP Pro pistons, Wiseco's dish size works better for me.

 

Pete,
What you think of these parts? The only thing I question is are the Kieth Black pistons. Also why do they offer two sizes of cap screws? not sure what they are talking about (main cap bolts?) what is stock?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-91110BIE/

 

They are the same crank and rods I mentioned in my post.
3/8 rod bolt is all you need. Factory bolt is fine, (and is the same 3/8 size)but those are a nice step above stock, and a better rod than you need. Factory rebuilt rods work, but the scat's are only a tiny bit more than rebuilding stockers properly.
I have run Keith Blacks for years. The work well, but they make noise, and use oil. It is the nature of their design, and upper ring end gap. If minor noise and oil consumption will not bother you, they are fine.
Sealed powers I recommed are quieter, and use conventional end gaps.

 

lt1s don't use the same balancer as sbc's and almost all cast 1pc rms cranks are balanced neutral in the front..

 

Yeah...It sounds like the LT1's use a combo balancer/pully vs the two separate parts found on a Gen1 SBC?
======================================== =========
As for the "most 1pc cranks" being front neutral balanced....

Forged are all neutral balanced (front/rear).

For the Eagle/Scat cast units:
Eagle makes int frt/rear, ext frt/rear, or a combo ext rear/int front (which is listed as an LT1 crank -- though also for L98s.) The combo crank is the one I listed the part for.

Scat makes int frt/rear or ext frt/rear. Scat does not make a Scat9000 in the factory config (e.g., ext rear/int front). That's why Scat9000 buyers have to use an external balancer or do what Pete said.

So I'm not sure what your point was. But I think this explains the options.