4-bolt block needed?
12-26-2009, 10:26 AM
#21
Drifting
[QUOTE=Pete K;1572542970]
Sould be able to look that up in a dictionary or even google and it sounds like your not a very smart man with questions like that.
WOW only basing all your info on ONE engine that lasted for 10 years HMMMMMMMMMMM I wish I could do that as we deal with about 200 blocks and engines a year. Now how does that figue over 10 years are you smart enough to figure that out?? If not I can do the math for you.
I guess your were lucky try telling the guys who have tried the 2 bolt block deal and were not so lucky.
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
I deal with some pretty smart guys that build some pretty good engines and I know they would not attempt ot try a 2 bolt making over 500 horse and stand behind it.
Only basing info on one engine thats very interesting imformation.
2 bolt main cap threads have always been a good debate. And going to a splayed caps seems to work better then 2 bolt caps at least from waht I have seen and the guys that have done it see that it works as well.
If I am going to build a TRUE 500 or more horse power engine I think I would use some thing that has been proven. And with the links I have posted the two bolt mains are not working like the 4 bolt of splayed caps do.
From what I have seen some guys need the practice of pulling engines down because of failed 2 bolt caps and I am sure they go right back to another 2 bolt block
Not to start a flame here but I have built a lot of engines over the years and have never seen a 500 horse 2 bolt work QUOTE]
Educate me. What is the definition of work?
Caps not walking?
Or crankshaft cannot stay in the block?
I have been spraying the nuts off my 383 motor for 10 years, until I lost ring seal and needed a refresh. It ran high 10's @ 129 in a 3400 pound vette, so I assume it was making 500+ horsepower.
After running it for so long, I can say that I did see slight evidence of cap walk, and bearings good enough to reuse, if I were silly enough to do so.
I also detonated the **** out of it more than a couple of times too, so I am presuming that could very well have contributed to some walk also.
Anyhow, looking to learn. Was I shyt lucky all these years?
Educate me. What is the definition of work?
Caps not walking?
Or crankshaft cannot stay in the block?
I have been spraying the nuts off my 383 motor for 10 years, until I lost ring seal and needed a refresh. It ran high 10's @ 129 in a 3400 pound vette, so I assume it was making 500+ horsepower.
After running it for so long, I can say that I did see slight evidence of cap walk, and bearings good enough to reuse, if I were silly enough to do so.
I also detonated the **** out of it more than a couple of times too, so I am presuming that could very well have contributed to some walk also.
Anyhow, looking to learn. Was I shyt lucky all these years?
Educate me. What is the definition of work?
Caps not walking?
Or crankshaft cannot stay in the block?
Caps not walking?
Or crankshaft cannot stay in the block?
WOW only basing all your info on ONE engine that lasted for 10 years HMMMMMMMMMMM I wish I could do that as we deal with about 200 blocks and engines a year. Now how does that figue over 10 years are you smart enough to figure that out?? If not I can do the math for you.
Anyhow, looking to learn. Was I shyt lucky all these years?
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
I deal with some pretty smart guys that build some pretty good engines and I know they would not attempt ot try a 2 bolt making over 500 horse and stand behind it.
Only basing info on one engine thats very interesting imformation.
2 bolt main cap threads have always been a good debate. And going to a splayed caps seems to work better then 2 bolt caps at least from waht I have seen and the guys that have done it see that it works as well.
If I am going to build a TRUE 500 or more horse power engine I think I would use some thing that has been proven. And with the links I have posted the two bolt mains are not working like the 4 bolt of splayed caps do.
From what I have seen some guys need the practice of pulling engines down because of failed 2 bolt caps and I am sure they go right back to another 2 bolt block
12-26-2009, 10:37 AM
#22
Safety Car
Thread Starter
As I stated in the in the original post, this will not be a strip engine. It will be a street engine living it's life in the below 4500 rpm range most of the time. From what I have read, a 2-bolt block will be fine at this power level, in this situation.
12-26-2009, 10:51 AM
#23
[QUOTE=BLOCKMAN;1572543476]
Sould be able to look that up in a dictionary or even google and it sounds like your not a very smart man with questions like that.
WOW only basing all your info on ONE engine that lasted for 10 years HMMMMMMMMMMM I wish I could do that as we deal with about 200 blocks and engines a year. Now how does that figue over 10 years are you smart enough to figure that out?? If not I can do the math for you.
I guess your were lucky try telling the guys who have tried the 2 bolt block deal and were not so lucky.
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
I deal with some pretty smart guys that build some pretty good engines and I know they would not attempt ot try a 2 bolt making over 500 horse and stand behind it.
Only basing info on one engine thats very interesting imformation.
2 bolt main cap threads have always been a good debate. And going to a splayed caps seems to work better then 2 bolt caps at least from waht I have seen and the guys that have done it see that it works as well.
If I am going to build a TRUE 500 or more horse power engine I think I would use some thing that has been proven. And with the links I have posted the two bolt mains are not working like the 4 bolt of splayed caps do.
From what I have seen some guys need the practice of pulling engines down because of failed 2 bolt caps and I am sure they go right back to another 2 bolt block
Carl,
You didn't answer my question. I am asking you, the professional, what work means, as it applies to this discussion. I specifically asked for an education, not to be belittled. It was not a challenge.
If treating me like a moron is the way you see fit, so be it.
You clearly misunderstood.
Since this has elevated to having no respect for each other, you can kiss my all american azz.
The op had a good question, that triggered so very useful info. Your reply to every post, on any forum seems to be:
"Because you say so".
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
Carry on.
Sould be able to look that up in a dictionary or even google and it sounds like your not a very smart man with questions like that.
WOW only basing all your info on ONE engine that lasted for 10 years HMMMMMMMMMMM I wish I could do that as we deal with about 200 blocks and engines a year. Now how does that figue over 10 years are you smart enough to figure that out?? If not I can do the math for you.
I guess your were lucky try telling the guys who have tried the 2 bolt block deal and were not so lucky.
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
I deal with some pretty smart guys that build some pretty good engines and I know they would not attempt ot try a 2 bolt making over 500 horse and stand behind it.
Only basing info on one engine thats very interesting imformation.
2 bolt main cap threads have always been a good debate. And going to a splayed caps seems to work better then 2 bolt caps at least from waht I have seen and the guys that have done it see that it works as well.
If I am going to build a TRUE 500 or more horse power engine I think I would use some thing that has been proven. And with the links I have posted the two bolt mains are not working like the 4 bolt of splayed caps do.
From what I have seen some guys need the practice of pulling engines down because of failed 2 bolt caps and I am sure they go right back to another 2 bolt block
Carl,
You didn't answer my question. I am asking you, the professional, what work means, as it applies to this discussion. I specifically asked for an education, not to be belittled. It was not a challenge.
If treating me like a moron is the way you see fit, so be it.
You clearly misunderstood.
Since this has elevated to having no respect for each other, you can kiss my all american azz.
The op had a good question, that triggered so very useful info. Your reply to every post, on any forum seems to be:
"Because you say so".
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
Carry on.
12-26-2009, 10:53 AM
#24
[QUOTE=BLOCKMAN;1572543476][QUOTE=Pete K;1572542970]
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
QUOTE]
Yep. GM gave us 4 bolt mains, then gave us the aluminum block vega motor. We all know how well that piece of engineering went.
Boy if GM would have only done all their research on just one engine that lasted for 10 years where would we be???
QUOTE]
Yep. GM gave us 4 bolt mains, then gave us the aluminum block vega motor. We all know how well that piece of engineering went.
12-26-2009, 12:51 PM
#26
Drifting
[QUOTE=Pete K;1572543689]
Carl,
You didn't answer my question. I am asking you, the professional, what work means, as it applies to this discussion. I specifically asked for an education, not to be belittled. It was not a challenge.
If treating me like a moron is the way you see fit, so be it.
You clearly misunderstood. Since this has elevated to having no respect for each other, you can kiss my all american azz.
The op had a good question, that triggered so very useful info. Your reply to every post, on any forum seems to be:
"Because you say so".
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
Carry on.
What work means is that a type O I did if so most smart people would figue that out and I said most smart people.
I don't know it all thats for sure but sure have a good idea what works and waht does not.
Same to you as well.
For me to tell some their 2 block block was good for 500 horse I would be lying as I have seen to many people try it and it don't not work most of the time.
If a guy is going to build a performance engine built it right the first time. Don't skimp on parts and machine work.
Look at all the posts of guys having problems with the work they have had done because the shop they used did have a clue how to machine a block or put a performance engine together that is going last.
There are to many shops boring off unsquared decks, not line honing, plate honing, using a 2 bolt block where a 4 bolt should have been used ETC..
Its kind of funny we don't see these problems but we don't cut corneres on nothing.
I had a phone call from some one from this site that thanked me for the info I posted as he learned the hardway on his build and changed engine builders to get it done right the second time.
Again I may have a good idea what works and what doesn't. And I don't know it all just more then you thats for sure!!!! I don't base my info on one engine that ran for 10 years.
I have to ask how many engines you build a year and how many blocks you machine in a year. Just trying to compare apples to apples here.
I won't waste my time on something where I can see a potential problems with in the end and try to give info to others so they won't have problems either. That all
Carl,
You didn't answer my question. I am asking you, the professional, what work means, as it applies to this discussion. I specifically asked for an education, not to be belittled. It was not a challenge.
If treating me like a moron is the way you see fit, so be it.
You clearly misunderstood. Since this has elevated to having no respect for each other, you can kiss my all american azz.
The op had a good question, that triggered so very useful info. Your reply to every post, on any forum seems to be:
"Because you say so".
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
Carry on.
I don't know it all thats for sure but sure have a good idea what works and waht does not.
Since this has elevated to having no respect for each other, you can kiss my all american azz.
For me to tell some their 2 block block was good for 500 horse I would be lying as I have seen to many people try it and it don't not work most of the time.
If a guy is going to build a performance engine built it right the first time. Don't skimp on parts and machine work.
Look at all the posts of guys having problems with the work they have had done because the shop they used did have a clue how to machine a block or put a performance engine together that is going last.
There are to many shops boring off unsquared decks, not line honing, plate honing, using a 2 bolt block where a 4 bolt should have been used ETC..
Its kind of funny we don't see these problems but we don't cut corneres on nothing.
I had a phone call from some one from this site that thanked me for the info I posted as he learned the hardway on his build and changed engine builders to get it done right the second time.
"Because you say so".
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
You continue to know it all, and I will continue to attempt to learn.
I have to ask how many engines you build a year and how many blocks you machine in a year. Just trying to compare apples to apples here.
I won't waste my time on something where I can see a potential problems with in the end and try to give info to others so they won't have problems either. That all
12-26-2009, 01:10 PM
#27
[QUOTE=BLOCKMAN;1572544583]
What work means is that a type O I did if so most smart people would figue that out and I said most smart people.
I don't know it all thats for sure but sure have a good idea what works and waht does not.
Same to you as well.
For me to tell some their 2 block block was good for 500 horse I would be lying as I have seen to many people try it and it don't not work most of the time.
If a guy is going to build a performance engine built it right the first time. Don't skimp on parts and machine work.
Look at all the posts of guys having problems with the work they have had done because the shop they used did have a clue how to machine a block or put a performance engine together that is going last.
There are to many shops boring off unsquared decks, not line honing, plate honing, using a 2 bolt block where a 4 bolt should have been used ETC..
Its kind of funny we don't see these problems but we don't cut corneres on nothing.
I had a phone call from some one from this site that thanked me for the info I posted as he learned the hardway on his build and changed engine builders to get it done right the second time.
Again I may have a good idea what works and what doesn't. And I don't know it all just more then you thats for sure!!!! I don't base my info on one engine that ran for 10 years.
I have to ask how many engines you build a year and how many blocks you machine in a year. Just trying to compare apples to apples here.
I won't waste my time on something where I can see a potential problems with in the end and try to give info to others so they won't have problems either. That all
Carl,
I machine nothing a year. I am in the construction business, and this is hobby for me, to support my drag racing.
I assemble maybe 10 motors a year.
I assemble maybe 20 transmissions a year.
My only engineering experience is trial and error. Believe me, there has been alot of error.
I do not pretend to know more than a competent engine builder.
That is why I asked for an education, and you interpreted it as a challenge.
That was your misunderstanding.
I have read alot of your valuable info over the years, when sifting through your belittling of myself, and many, many others.
I realize that you must win any debate, and must have the last word, therefore I fully expect another nasty reply.
That is not fair to the origional poster.
Reply as you must, as I am well aware of your absolute requirement to have the last word.
As you know, I am involved with a photo build up for a friend of mine.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-w-photos.html
My machinest and I knew that starting the thread above would be food for your trolling, so please keep the negative comments over there (as I am sure there will be a ton of them) rather than here. A simple request from me, that I am certain you can honor.
What work means is that a type O I did if so most smart people would figue that out and I said most smart people.
I don't know it all thats for sure but sure have a good idea what works and waht does not.
Same to you as well.
For me to tell some their 2 block block was good for 500 horse I would be lying as I have seen to many people try it and it don't not work most of the time.
If a guy is going to build a performance engine built it right the first time. Don't skimp on parts and machine work.
Look at all the posts of guys having problems with the work they have had done because the shop they used did have a clue how to machine a block or put a performance engine together that is going last.
There are to many shops boring off unsquared decks, not line honing, plate honing, using a 2 bolt block where a 4 bolt should have been used ETC..
Its kind of funny we don't see these problems but we don't cut corneres on nothing.
I had a phone call from some one from this site that thanked me for the info I posted as he learned the hardway on his build and changed engine builders to get it done right the second time.
Again I may have a good idea what works and what doesn't. And I don't know it all just more then you thats for sure!!!! I don't base my info on one engine that ran for 10 years.
I have to ask how many engines you build a year and how many blocks you machine in a year. Just trying to compare apples to apples here.
I won't waste my time on something where I can see a potential problems with in the end and try to give info to others so they won't have problems either. That all
Carl,
I machine nothing a year. I am in the construction business, and this is hobby for me, to support my drag racing.
I assemble maybe 10 motors a year.
I assemble maybe 20 transmissions a year.
My only engineering experience is trial and error. Believe me, there has been alot of error.
I do not pretend to know more than a competent engine builder.
That is why I asked for an education, and you interpreted it as a challenge.
That was your misunderstanding.
I have read alot of your valuable info over the years, when sifting through your belittling of myself, and many, many others.
I realize that you must win any debate, and must have the last word, therefore I fully expect another nasty reply.
That is not fair to the origional poster.
Reply as you must, as I am well aware of your absolute requirement to have the last word.
As you know, I am involved with a photo build up for a friend of mine.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-w-photos.html
My machinest and I knew that starting the thread above would be food for your trolling, so please keep the negative comments over there (as I am sure there will be a ton of them) rather than here. A simple request from me, that I am certain you can honor.
12-26-2009, 03:30 PM
#28
Drifting
[QUOTE=Pete K;1572544709]
Carl,
I machine nothing a year. I am in the construction business, and this is hobby for me, to support my drag racing.
I assemble maybe 10 motors a year.
I assemble maybe 20 transmissions a year.
My only engineering experience is trial and error. Believe me, there has been alot of error.
I do not pretend to know more than a competent engine builder.
That is why I asked for an education, and you interpreted it as a challenge.
That was your misunderstanding.
I have read alot of your valuable info over the years, when sifting through your belittling of myself, and many, many others.
I realize that you must win any debate, and must have the last word, therefore I fully expect another nasty reply.
That is not fair to the origional poster.
Reply as you must, as I am well aware of your absolute requirement to have the last word.
As you know, I am involved with a photo build up for a friend of mine.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-w-photos.html
My machinest and I knew that starting the thread above would be food for your trolling, so please keep the negative comments over there (as I am sure there will be a ton of them) rather than here. A simple request from me, that I am certain you can honor.
If your dealing with a good shop and they believes in doing a good job, like line honing, boring off a squared deck and believes in plate honing with a good machine your build should come out fine.
As I have seen way too many budget builds gone bad on this site and all the other site I watch over. If your building a bone stock engine thats one thing but when building a performance engine that a customer wants a good job done, It should be done as a lot of guys get stroked by alot of shops out there who claim they can but can't produce. Some guys will tell people anything to get work in there shop.
Believe me there are a lot of good machine shops out there but they are far a few between.
Interesting as I work construction with my trucking business in the summer time when there is not much going on.
Carl,
I machine nothing a year. I am in the construction business, and this is hobby for me, to support my drag racing.
I assemble maybe 10 motors a year.
I assemble maybe 20 transmissions a year.
My only engineering experience is trial and error. Believe me, there has been alot of error.
I do not pretend to know more than a competent engine builder.
That is why I asked for an education, and you interpreted it as a challenge.
That was your misunderstanding.
I have read alot of your valuable info over the years, when sifting through your belittling of myself, and many, many others.
I realize that you must win any debate, and must have the last word, therefore I fully expect another nasty reply.
That is not fair to the origional poster.
Reply as you must, as I am well aware of your absolute requirement to have the last word.
As you know, I am involved with a photo build up for a friend of mine.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-w-photos.html
My machinest and I knew that starting the thread above would be food for your trolling, so please keep the negative comments over there (as I am sure there will be a ton of them) rather than here. A simple request from me, that I am certain you can honor.
As I have seen way too many budget builds gone bad on this site and all the other site I watch over. If your building a bone stock engine thats one thing but when building a performance engine that a customer wants a good job done, It should be done as a lot of guys get stroked by alot of shops out there who claim they can but can't produce. Some guys will tell people anything to get work in there shop.
Believe me there are a lot of good machine shops out there but they are far a few between.
Interesting as I work construction with my trucking business in the summer time when there is not much going on.
12-27-2009, 05:50 PM
#29
Drifting
Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 1,756
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I'm certain that block material has a lot to do with why some 2-bolt blocks last under the strain. A nickle content of 030 made those blocks stronger and I believe they resisted strain much better.
You guys keep in mind not all of us readers out here are ignorant. Several things have to do with why main caps walk, besides crank side-thrust. An out-of-balance spinning assy will shake the main caps.
You guys keep in mind not all of us readers out here are ignorant. Several things have to do with why main caps walk, besides crank side-thrust. An out-of-balance spinning assy will shake the main caps.
12-27-2009, 06:00 PM
#30
Drifting
Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 1,756
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There are a few good engine builders & machine shops here in Wichita. Dwayne Saum of Saum engineering and Darrel Palmer of Furley KS. There's also Patterson Racing in Augusta but these shops are all kind of tied together. Palmer is the block & cylinder wall man. Saum does piston work, balancing and most of the machine work for the group. I think Daryle Wikle is still around. Anyway, the correct answer for the OP is to use a 4-bolt main block. Either use splayed caps on the 2-bolt block or find a 4-bolt LT1 block.
12-27-2009, 09:18 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
I rarely use absolute terms like "ALWAYS", but in this case "ALWAYS" applies. ALWAYS over build the bottom end! Four bolt mains is the way to go in a performance application.
Two bolt caps will show evidence of walking when removed and the mating surfaces examined. Problem is the damage usually has already happened before you get around to noticing that.
Also, watch out for dis-claimers like 'SHOULD BE OKAY'; etc.
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
Two bolt caps will show evidence of walking when removed and the mating surfaces examined. Problem is the damage usually has already happened before you get around to noticing that.
Also, watch out for dis-claimers like 'SHOULD BE OKAY'; etc.
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
12-28-2009, 11:59 AM
#32
Instructor
hi...which type is 4 bolt and wich 2 bolt block?
what is 1985 GM SBC block?2 or 4 bolt?
thanks for answers..since i want to build something on my own is better to know the right thing before i buy the blocks
..
BR,Seba
ahm...for all of you..i wish you all the best in 2010!!!take care and keep on rockin' this place like you did it till now!!
what is 1985 GM SBC block?2 or 4 bolt?
thanks for answers..since i want to build something on my own is better to know the right thing before i buy the blocks
..BR,Seba
ahm...for all of you..i wish you all the best in 2010!!!take care and keep on rockin' this place like you did it till now!!
12-28-2009, 11:28 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
I rarely use absolute terms like "ALWAYS", but in this case "ALWAYS" applies. ALWAYS over build the bottom end! Four bolt mains is the way to go in a performance application.
Two bolt caps will show evidence of walking when removed and the mating surfaces examined. Problem is the damage usually has already happened before you get around to noticing that.
Also, watch out for dis-claimers like 'SHOULD BE OKAY'; etc.
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
Two bolt caps will show evidence of walking when removed and the mating surfaces examined. Problem is the damage usually has already happened before you get around to noticing that.
Also, watch out for dis-claimers like 'SHOULD BE OKAY'; etc.
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
12-29-2009, 02:35 AM
#34
Melting Slicks
Blockman, I have built 500 hp 2 bolt main engines that have lived with ARP main studs and quality machine work. And I have seen alot of guys on other forums third gen.org and z28.com that do head and cam packages on stock bottom end two bolt engines that make over 400rwhp... which would be approaching 500 chp. Some are more in the 450rwhp range. How long they last is another question. But I have seen it done many times. Personally, I would prefer a 4 bolt block, and either a Dart block or a Bowtie block. But there are people on a budget have pushed the envelope and made some decent power on 2 bolt blocks.
I have a personal friend that is a serious bracket racer. 406 2 bolt main AFR Eliminator 210, 254/260 cam about 12.5 compression, in a 74 Nova. Intake was a super Victor and a 850 Holley. He made probably hundred+ passes a year. And I am sure he is over 500 fwhp. Maybe closer to 600hp. After probably close to 700 passes he had a block failure, and the block basically split in two above the main caps. But this engine was a low budget engine that lasted for probably 7 years of hard racing week after week.
You get what you pay for, but guys on a budget have pushed 2 bolt blocks pretty far.
I can see where you wouldn't recommend a 2 bolt block for high hp. Neither would I. But with economics, guys will push the envelope with what they have. All my high end builds have 4 bolt mains. But not everybody can afford to do a high end build.
I have a personal friend that is a serious bracket racer. 406 2 bolt main AFR Eliminator 210, 254/260 cam about 12.5 compression, in a 74 Nova. Intake was a super Victor and a 850 Holley. He made probably hundred+ passes a year. And I am sure he is over 500 fwhp. Maybe closer to 600hp. After probably close to 700 passes he had a block failure, and the block basically split in two above the main caps. But this engine was a low budget engine that lasted for probably 7 years of hard racing week after week.
You get what you pay for, but guys on a budget have pushed 2 bolt blocks pretty far.
I can see where you wouldn't recommend a 2 bolt block for high hp. Neither would I. But with economics, guys will push the envelope with what they have. All my high end builds have 4 bolt mains. But not everybody can afford to do a high end build.
Last edited by tpi 421 vette; 12-29-2009 at 02:56 AM.
12-29-2009, 09:13 AM
#36
Drifting
Blockman, I have built 500 hp 2 bolt main engines that have lived with ARP main studs and quality machine work. And I have seen alot of guys on other forums third gen.org and z28.com that do head and cam packages on stock bottom end two bolt engines that make over 400rwhp... which would be approaching 500 chp. Some are more in the 450rwhp range. How long they last is another question. But I have seen it done many times. Personally, I would prefer a 4 bolt block, and either a Dart block or a Bowtie block. But there are people on a budget have pushed the envelope and made some decent power on 2 bolt blocks.
I have a personal friend that is a serious bracket racer. 406 2 bolt main AFR Eliminator 210, 254/260 cam about 12.5 compression, in a 74 Nova. Intake was a super Victor and a 850 Holley. He made probably hundred+ passes a year. And I am sure he is over 500 fwhp. Maybe closer to 600hp. After probably close to 700 passes he had a block failure, and the block basically split in two above the main caps. But this engine was a low budget engine that lasted for probably 7 years of hard racing week after week.
You get what you pay for, but guys on a budget have pushed 2 bolt blocks pretty far.
I can see where you wouldn't recommend a 2 bolt block for high hp. Neither would I. But with economics, guys will push the envelope with what they have. All my high end builds have 4 bolt mains. But not everybody can afford to do a high end build.
I have a personal friend that is a serious bracket racer. 406 2 bolt main AFR Eliminator 210, 254/260 cam about 12.5 compression, in a 74 Nova. Intake was a super Victor and a 850 Holley. He made probably hundred+ passes a year. And I am sure he is over 500 fwhp. Maybe closer to 600hp. After probably close to 700 passes he had a block failure, and the block basically split in two above the main caps. But this engine was a low budget engine that lasted for probably 7 years of hard racing week after week.
You get what you pay for, but guys on a budget have pushed 2 bolt blocks pretty far.
I can see where you wouldn't recommend a 2 bolt block for high hp. Neither would I. But with economics, guys will push the envelope with what they have. All my high end builds have 4 bolt mains. But not everybody can afford to do a high end build.
How can you compare a 400 2 bolt main caps to a 350 2 bolt cap on the 400 the caps are 6.200 wide on the center caps on a 400 and 4.485 wide on a 350 2 bolt caps.
I just look at a 2 bolt 350 stock bottom end this engine is in a S-10 pick up with a 6 speed and it has been beat and the main caps are moving alot on this engine and its only a 3.480 stroke.
We have built cirlce track engines for 38 years or so and I can tell you this a 2 bolt block in 400 horse application will move the caps I have seen it to many times guys trying to use there 2 bolt blocks.
400 hose is 400 horse I don't care if its a street engine, circle track, marine engine.
GM has spent millions of dallars testing what works and if they thought a 2 bolt was good for 500 horse they never would have invented the 4 bolt cap blocks
If GM had a 2 bolt 350 block with the caps as wide as the 400 block caps that would make a big differance, There is a reason the 400 block use a wide cap its to support the load of the extra stroke.
We see about 200 blocks a year and deal with about 400 or better phone calls and emails about broke engines and I can say I am not the only one seeing these problems.
Look at an old GM catalog that where they rate there blocks for HP the of therir 2 bolt Bowtie block its rated at 375 horse and now the same block with splayed caps in good for over 700 horse.
I have to ask who has spent more on testing the guys who has spent nothing on testing or GM who has spent millions testing their blocks on how much HP they will take.
I guess they don't really care if its a street machine, drage race or circle track engine as it don't matter to them.
I have seen a trand over the years of building performance engines what works and what does not.
I could not honestly say a 2 bolt block is good for 500 horse after seeing the guys who have tried this and not seen it work. That why I post piec and links to guys that have tried it and it did not work
There again I am not basing all my info on a handfull of engines I have built in a life time.
This link is from a guy from this site and he learned the hard way and I bet his engine was not near 500 horse and it broke a main cap.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...ps-1992-a.html
INTERESTING TOPIC
12-29-2009, 04:57 PM
#38
Drifting
Here is a link from this site on those blocks.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...olt-block.html
12-30-2009, 02:13 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Those blocks are a very good piece as we have sold about 50 of them this year.
Here is a link from this site on those blocks.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...olt-block.html
Here is a link from this site on those blocks.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...olt-block.html
Last edited by Crepitus; 12-30-2009 at 02:15 AM.
12-30-2009, 06:17 AM
#40
Drifting
I have been following that thread,excellent read. The only question I have left is if there is a significant disadvantage to using a brad new block vs a used/seasoned one. I want to run a 3.48 stroke 372 at 7500rpm The forged Dart short with 210 top end 10.5to1 for less than 6500$ + cam, fuel sys and oiling stuff. looks pretty slick to me, what do you guys think.
One of my friends has his apart and will let me know how the cylinders are after a season of punishment.
I really don't think there will be a problem with a Dart blocks