Solid roller lifter question
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Solid roller lifter question
Hey guys, I have a question about solid roller lifters. I was told that, by changing your hydraulic roller lifters to solid roller lifter on a hydraulic cam will net more horsepower. By taking an advantage of the higher rpms that hydraulic lifters fail to use. This does seem plausible to me, but I wonder what must be changed along with the lifters. Push rods and springs? I'm just chasing a thought. I really hate to make another cam change. This why I'm seeking other options. Thanks guys for your help..
purplehayes
purplehayes
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
They are ground totally different, just stick a solid cam in it, do it right.
Youll need to upgrade springs and get a good pushrod
Just learned a lesson on this one the hard way
Youll need to upgrade springs and get a good pushrod
Just learned a lesson on this one the hard way
Last edited by cv67; Feb 12, 2011 at 12:19 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2008
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Hey guys, I have a question about solid roller lifters. I was told that, by changing your hydraulic roller lifters to solid roller lifter on a hydraulic cam will net more horsepower. By taking an advantage of the higher rpms that hydraulic lifters fail to use. This does seem plausible to me, but I wonder what must be changed along with the lifters. Push rods and springs? I'm just chasing a thought. I really hate to make another cam change. This why I'm seeking other options. Thanks guys for your help..
purplehayes
purplehayes
And correct matching valvesprings.
Then correct necessary valvetrain geometry.
Any other way is just asking for troubles and ultimate failure of parts.
Try it if you want. Mixing up parts. Find out the hard way as many prior to you.
Trash your engine and your vette will be dead.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 308
Likes: 2
From: Kansas City MO
There's actually an OLD trick to get a few more HP when you have to run a "stock cam" in certain classes of racing pull the lifter apart, shim up the plunger solid and make the stock hydraulic lifters 'solid' - take out the slop of a hydraulic lifter and it'll make a tiny difference but it's harder on parts as I understand because the cam lobe ramps are designed with the hydraulic "cushion" in mind (which doesn't matter when you're chasing the last 1-2 HP in a 'stock' class of racing) Unless you're restricted for some reason by a certain racing class rules there is absolutely NO reason to do this.
For the expense of a solid roller lifter you can purchase a nice new hydraulic roller cam and re-use the stock hydraulic lifters and make a LOT more HP than just swapping lifters.
For the expense of a solid roller lifter you can purchase a nice new hydraulic roller cam and re-use the stock hydraulic lifters and make a LOT more HP than just swapping lifters.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 308
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From: Kansas City MO
Really it depends on the rest of the combo, but in theory if you have a solid roller with EXACTLY the same specs as a hydraulic roller expect about a .5-1% gain tops
What a solid roller gets you is the ability to rev higher and run a more aggressive lobe profile and open the valves faster for more potential airflow. I ran my circle track 406 engine to 7800 RPM in the straights with a solid roller and had it at 8200 several times and with no signs of valve float (of course it takes good valvetrain components)
Is this a dedicated racer (at 7.08's I wouldn't think so??) What's the rest of the engine combo (heads, static compression, intake, etc.) and what's the race weight, trans, gear ratio, convterter stall and are you willing to at least swap stall and gear ratios to match a new cam combo?
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Its a street car at full weight other than racing weld rims. I'm getting around 18 mpg. I have the mini ram set up on a set of tpis afr heads. The bottom end is all forged with flat top pistons. The heads are 55cc with 2.02 and 1.60 valves. Stall converter is 3500 with 4:11 gears through a 700r tranny. Yes i would swap out rear gear and stall if need. The cam is a bullet cam at 558 gross lift.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,482
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From: folsom california
Of late, I did a lot of reading on this subject.
First, all the solid roller cams seem to be WAY too big to be driven on the street.
But could a solid roller be run on an aggressive, but still streetable hydraulic roller cam? Since there are now drop in solid roller lifters available that are a direct replacement for oem hydraulic roller lifters, it's an intriguing idea.
Yes, running solid roller lifters on an hydraulic roller cam is doable. The main reason seems to be to remove one more limiting factor in the quest for higher rpm. But horsepower gains at lesser rpms? probably not. If you're planning on doing it, the lash must be set (very) tight, on the order of 0.003 inch. If you're not planning on revving your engine very high (7,000 rpm, or more ?), stick with oem style hydraulic rollers.
First, all the solid roller cams seem to be WAY too big to be driven on the street.
But could a solid roller be run on an aggressive, but still streetable hydraulic roller cam? Since there are now drop in solid roller lifters available that are a direct replacement for oem hydraulic roller lifters, it's an intriguing idea.
Yes, running solid roller lifters on an hydraulic roller cam is doable. The main reason seems to be to remove one more limiting factor in the quest for higher rpm. But horsepower gains at lesser rpms? probably not. If you're planning on doing it, the lash must be set (very) tight, on the order of 0.003 inch. If you're not planning on revving your engine very high (7,000 rpm, or more ?), stick with oem style hydraulic rollers.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Australia
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,624
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From: Dale City VA
You are gong to run into problems running mech roller lifters on a hyd roller cam. There is a lot more to it than dropping in mech roller lifters and calling it good.
Real hyd roller cams do not have any lash ramp. This makes the lobe lift rate way too fast off/on the seat (as compared to a real mech roller).
Those shimed up Schubeck or Morel lifters are intended for class racers who use custom ground camshafts specifically intended for that use. The engine builders/cam grinders have spent hours on a spintron to keep the valve train in check on these deals.
There are so many companies that have tight lash mech roller profiles that run great on the street with proper oiling that doing this guaranteed to fail abortion just doesn't make sense.
Likewise hyd roller profiles have jumped in the past 3-5yrs.... Mike Jones' EHR profiles and the Comp XFI profiles with proper valve train selection are the best hyd roller HP makers availiable at this point. If you want to stay hyd they are the way to go.
Will
Real hyd roller cams do not have any lash ramp. This makes the lobe lift rate way too fast off/on the seat (as compared to a real mech roller).
Those shimed up Schubeck or Morel lifters are intended for class racers who use custom ground camshafts specifically intended for that use. The engine builders/cam grinders have spent hours on a spintron to keep the valve train in check on these deals.
There are so many companies that have tight lash mech roller profiles that run great on the street with proper oiling that doing this guaranteed to fail abortion just doesn't make sense.
Likewise hyd roller profiles have jumped in the past 3-5yrs.... Mike Jones' EHR profiles and the Comp XFI profiles with proper valve train selection are the best hyd roller HP makers availiable at this point. If you want to stay hyd they are the way to go.
Will
Pro
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 690
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From: Youngsville NC
i run a .700+ lift solid cam in my 399 lt4. i think its very streetable. every bit as much as a mechanical cam would be at that size. maybe more. however you cannot simply swap lifters as said above. it takes the cam,the correct lifters, pushrods to match your cam, and stronger valvesprings matched to the cam. then you gotta make sure your chain can handle the spring pressures
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
First, all the solid roller cams seem to be WAY too big to be driven on the street.
Current one is 250/254 at .050 on a 110lsa which has great driveability, a grandma could drive it. Has better manners than a hyd FT with 240@.050 and the power you cant compare. if that example helps..
They make smaller solid rollers, a 23x ish sr would have super good manners and be manageable.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 690
Likes: 1
From: Youngsville NC
mine is high 260's on a 111 i think. aint looked at my cam card lately. its somewhere around 710 lift... i think its 700/711 with 1.6 rockers and 260/268 @ .050..... and surprisingly drives excellent.....it wants to go, but it drives good and its a nitrous cam
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,973
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From: San Antonio Texas
The old standard was that a Solid Cam will idle and pull low-mid range like a Hyd that has 10* less duration. Like a 240* solid will idle and pull like a 230* hyd. down low, but you get the power of 240* up high. Of course there is lash setting; maybe a couple of times a year; depending on how hard the motor is run. If you're still wanting to go solid you should be able to get a cam with about any duration you want. I agree with rkless driver on a Mike Jones custom grind or CC XFI.
