I got home and filled the Rad again to see if can see anything. the water seems to have drained slower. Looking down the #8 intake port in the head I see clear water that I didn't notice before (I was concentrating on the driverside). I waited to see if it would drain or was there from before. Sure enough it drained. Pulled that spark plug and alot of water drained out. That explains half the route of the water. how is it getting into the oilpan?

I am thinking I can pull that piston from bottom and fill the cylinder with expanding foam to seal it off. I always thought I had too many cyliders and i'll get 12% better mileage. Has anyone ever tried this?

V7 badge on the side would look cool.

anyways given new info what next? trying to avoid pulling engine. can the heads be pulled without yanking the motor? What about the pan?

 

Surely you have to be joking right? I told you what to do, if you don't want to do it then I can't see trying to help any more.

 

yah i was joking, I was typing when you posted. Thanks for your help. how long to take the pan off?

 

You have a cracked block or a cracked cylinder head. The cylinder head is the most likely culprit since you're seeing water in the intake port.

Yes, you can pull the heads with the engine in the car. The headbolts between the #6 & #8 cylinders are a PIA due to the HVAC box. In theory you could pull just the bad cylinder head. Personally I don't like to do half a job.

If the head turns out to not be cracked, then you're that much closer to having the engine out of the car...ie it wasn't wasted effort.

 

About 10-15 minutes, you may have to rotate the crank to get the back rods to clear the pan so it will come out. Pay special attention to what may be laying in the pan. I have to tell you, this sounds like a new engine to me but take a look and post pics if you can so we can see what you find.

 

Yep..

lemonade, anyone?

See this as opportunity. Thats how I learned to look at mine when I scattered it. It stings a little.

 

you guys are killin me. cracked block or cracked head? It ran fine with no other problems when I went to replace the flippin weeping manifold gasket. You guys are stressing me out.

How the hell could I have cracked/blown anything just running it a few seconds?????? don't you need ALOT of heat to crack either one? I know you all are guessing not actually being here and I appreciate the input but I would also like to learn how things go wrong from your guys experience.

 

My best friend just replaced his late model motor in his mustang because the GF tried to start it one morning and it cranked...then locked. A camera revealed a crack thru a cylinder.... never found a reason why. Car was maintained like the space shuttle.
No rhyme or reason. Often physics keep a part together until the stress is relieved. Reciprocating forces and all...

Like I said...see it as opportunity. There ARE ways to make this hurt lots less than you;re thinking. I know several GOOD salvage stores that can get you a head...any other big part. Long blocks too. Milege on ECM motors is not the deciding factor anymore. A used one with 75K is darn near as tight as a new one if its been maintained.

 

You said yourself there was a metallic clank when you turned it over so what are you expecting to find, humidity? You show us pics of the bottom end and if the problem is visible we will tell you what is wrong. If you are describing the way the water drained into the block accurately and not just guessing then I can guarantee you it will be visible and probably big enough to throw a cat through. Ask forum member ottawabarber how quickly a crack can appear, however I still don't think you have a crack but I am done speculating until you get it apart.

 

Humidity, now that was funny. Thanks again for your all your input. I'll get the pan off tommorrow and take some pictures.

 

Try to save any chunks that fall out...save them and wash them up for reference...or a post mortem..The big chunks tell alot of the what and how.'Sometimes they even tell how much...

 

Is there any chance you dropped some small item down an intake port while the manifold was off? I had something happen to me a long time ago, I was changing the intake on my car and one of my "friends" dropped a 1/8" pipe plug down an intake port while I had the engine apart. Now this plug was no bigger than an aspirin, it only had a slot on one side so it could be installed with a screwdriver. Anyway I bolted it all back up and when I went to start the engine it made one revolution then threw about a 3 ft. fireball out the carb and was locked up tight. When I got it apart the piston had exploded and took out the whole side of a cylinder. Way more extreme than your metallic sound you heard but it will give you an idea of how damage can happen inside an engine. The combined force of the piston trapping the plug between it and the head plus the force of ignition in the cylinder made quite a boom and totally destroyed a perfectly good engine. I never did find out who dropped that plug in my engine.
This is kinda long but you wanted to know how things could go wrong from our experiences.

 

Yessir...washers..nuts...tools. I lost a bike engine many years ago to a washer like that. It shocks many people to finally see just how close things get to each other in a motor. Valves are chased back up into the seated position by a piston thats right on it just a few thousanths away...piston skirts that come down and barely miss crankshaft counterweights...rods that clear the lower cyl wall by a gap that a business card could'nt slip thru.. there is just so little room in a modern motor that a grain of sand is taking up space that something else needs.

No body is going to sugar coat the possible outcome...'cause if you sugar coat a turd it looks just like a jellybean. Its better to know the possibilities going in, rather than finding out the hard way.

Hang in there...There is plenty of great advice, experience and support here.

 

Try building a stroker engine, some of the clearances will scare hell out of you. Rod bolt to cam is a real eye opener.

 

Midnight, possible I guess. I thought I was careful but who knows. I did this project over several evenings. Maybe that Cat got in the intake when I wasn't looking. Going to pull pan.

 

Are u sure about the 15 min. ? it looks like 20min to clear all the crap out of the way to get to the pan. You sure I can get it out without lifting the engine to clear the frame? took the oil filter off and no water in filter. Had green coolant at the exhaust y joint.

 

L98....I keep thinking to myself, why is nobody worried about leaking at intake. I have seen intake gaskets dump water into the lifter valley, and thats the gasket he changed. Maybe the gasket did not seal at head to intake water passage, or was faulty.

 

From the for what it's worth department....

Here's my grasp on what may have happened based on my experience with my 91 L98 and a #7 head gasket failure....

1.The right head gasket has been weak/corroded/failing and seeping in to #8 for awhile, probably from the aft water passages to the cylinder. Did you ever notice a little white smoke/steam during initial startup?
2.Prior to and during the initial intake removal, more coolant seeped in to the cylinder and layed on the piston top..
3.At the “dry run” start, there was enough coolant sitting on top of the piston that the compression caused a partial liquid lock (hence the loud metallic clunk because liquid does not compress) and finished blowing out the weak area in the head gasket.
4.When the system was filled, the coolant now flows in to the cylinder with less restriction or between the head and block through the head oil galley return to the pan.
5.As water “settles” to the highest possible level, coolant in the #8 intake port could easily be explained as the intake valve is open allowing it to fill to the level of the main coolant passages..

I may be way off base, but when mine finally liquid locked, it was on the compression stroke and would not allow rotation. After I drained #7 by pulling the spark plug, I reinstalled the plug and it started, but steamed like a stanley steamer out the exhaust, just like the chronic lower intake manifold gasket failures gm,s are known for... After I pulled the head, I found no other damage than the headgasket failure.. Yep, I changed both of them with the engine in the car.... only lost about a pint of blood total on the r/h side....

 

glntom, we're past that point. I tore the intake backoff and verified it was sealed and installed correctly. Even with the intake off the water is still flowing into the oil pan.

Okie, I really hope that is what happen. This was one of the last years for production of this motor after 40 someodd years. they couldn't have fixed the known problem by now? I've looking at the head and can see that the head should come out while still inthe car but how do you get a torque wrench the head?????

 

Access can be thru the wheel wells or from the temporary relocation of other stuff...

I've done the left head for the same reasons...#7. Done that dance on 2 different vettes. Was'nt fun, but it is possible. In fact, just did it last year on my current car.

Your pan needs to have the 2 supports/braces removed for easier removal.... the 2 that cross the front corners... I think they're only a couple bolts so its not horrible.