Help! No Start
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From: Yonkers NY
Help! No Start
I have a '93 with automatic, the car was sitting for a while, battery went dead, charged the battery in the car and still would not start just click at the solenoid. Got a new battery, now no click at all, and no lcd display in the dash. I've checked all fuses and only found the Air pump fuse blown inside the engine compartment (not sure if this would have anything to do with it). I've tried jumping the starter directly from the battery and its still dead. Can anyone offer some help?
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From: Yonkers NY
Ok, so I was under the car cleaning grounds and looking for loose wires. (This is with the battery connected). I was cleaning the S terminal of the starter with a wire brush and I got sparks and the solenoid clicked and the starter may have even turned. Is this a short somewhere? I attached a jumper wire to the S terminal and the battery + Postive terminal and the starter started spinning (weak though) and also notice gas fuems. Is this the VATS not allowing the engine to turn over?
Team Owner
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
If VATS is ok, then you should see 12v on the S (starter solenoid) terminal when the ign sw hits crank position. If no 12v, then you should investigate the VATS circuit to find out why 12v isn't getting to the starter. It must be VATS because you did get your starter to momentarily crank. Your wire brushing connected 12v from the large starter terminal to the S terminal which operates the starter solenoid and the starter should crank the engine. Don't wire brush electrical terminals when the battery is connected! Disconnect the neg terminal of the battery first.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2011
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From: Louisville Ky
If VATS is ok, then you should see 12v on the S (starter solenoid) terminal when the ign sw hits crank position. If no 12v, then you should investigate the VATS circuit to find out why 12v isn't getting to the starter. It must be VATS because you did get your starter to momentarily crank. Your wire brushing connected 12v from the large starter terminal to the S terminal which operates the starter solenoid and the starter should crank the engine. Don't wire brush electrical terminals when the battery is connected! Disconnect the neg terminal of the battery first.
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From: Yonkers NY
I get 12v to battery terminal of the starter, but 0v to the S terminal. How should go about checking the VATS? I know very little about the system just what I've read read in various threads on the Forum. These are all the things I've notice inside of the car: I know my security light doesn't flash but then again, I don't know if that is just due to the fact of the dash being blank, except for the brake indicator on the half moon. The DIC, radio and curtesy light all work, but there is no "chime"when the door is open or key is in ignition. In disconnecting and reconnecting the battery terminals, shouldn't that trigger the factory alarm (horn)?
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From: Yonkers NY
I started checking the grounds but can't find them all. Shouldn't there be a ground on the passenger side underneath the car, directly opposite the drivers side chassis to bell housing? I have a diagram that is not really clear of where these locations are.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Argillite KY
Look at the resistor "pellet" on your key. The contacts sometimes (often on older cars) get worn down and the VATS doesn't work. Do you have a spare key to try. Your problem sounds like the classic VATS problem. If you don't have a spare key, it may be time to get one anyhow.
If you're good with a meter you could look for the wire under your dash (Small red wire with two white wires inside of it) and put the correct sized resistor in the plug and try that but the key would be easier. Good luck.
If you're good with a meter you could look for the wire under your dash (Small red wire with two white wires inside of it) and put the correct sized resistor in the plug and try that but the key would be easier. Good luck.
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From: Yonkers NY
I do have a spare key, but still nothing. I'm not really good with electrical, but i will try to measure the resitance in the wires. Would VATS cause the instrument cluster not to work or is that a seperate problem?
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From: Anaheim CA
I had a problem like this that turned out to be leaking battery acid that ate up the positive cable inside the sleeving. It looked OK until I took it off. My symptom was that the dashboard would light up when I turned on the key but would go out when I tried to start it. Also a jump from another car did the same thing.
My vote is for a bad battery cable connection. Try disconnecting and cleaning the terminals and hardware at both ends, both cables. You said you were under the car, so you might have already done this.
The VATS module energizes the starter relay, which energizes the solenoid. If it were bad you wouldn't get the solenoid click. I suppose the relay contacts could be bad, not allowing enough current to get to the solenoid. Another possibility is that the solenoid contacts are bad. Something somewhere isn't making a 100% connection.
My vote is for a bad battery cable connection. Try disconnecting and cleaning the terminals and hardware at both ends, both cables. You said you were under the car, so you might have already done this.
The VATS module energizes the starter relay, which energizes the solenoid. If it were bad you wouldn't get the solenoid click. I suppose the relay contacts could be bad, not allowing enough current to get to the solenoid. Another possibility is that the solenoid contacts are bad. Something somewhere isn't making a 100% connection.
Last edited by Cliff Harris; Jul 11, 2011 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Added my symptom.
Team Owner
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Sure, apply 12v to the relay coil and use an ohmeter to verify that the relay contacts switch on and off with the relay energized and unenergized.
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From: Yonkers NY
I assume this would be with the relay removed from the car?, due to it's location under the dash makes it close to impossible to work in that area. Exactly where should i apply the 12vs to, and where should i be testing for it switching on and off? Thanks for your help
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
You need to identify the relay coil terminals and apply 12v there and also identify the contact termnals and use an ohmeter there. You can use your ohmeter to find the coil termnals and they should measure somewhere around 100-500 ohms. The normally closed contacts will be the same as touching your ohmeter probes together.
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From: Yonkers NY
Thanks jfb,
I think I understand now, also while i'm still under the dash would you mind explaining how to test the resistance of the VATS, specifically which wires they are(color) and where they are located?
I think I understand now, also while i'm still under the dash would you mind explaining how to test the resistance of the VATS, specifically which wires they are(color) and where they are located?
Team Owner
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Remove the kick panel above the drivers feet and look for 2 wires that come from above the steering column and go to a 2 pin connector in the wiring harness against the firewall. I don't know what color the wires are on 93's. Insert your key and measure the resistance across the unplugged wires from above the steering column. It should measure the same as the pellet in your ign key. If more than 4% error, the VATS module will not close the start enable relay and it won't allow pulsing of the injectors. You can replace the ign lock in the column and it will have new contacts that make connection to the pellet. I am on my third lock in my 240k mile 87 vette.
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From: Yonkers NY
On the starter enable relay there are 5 prongs labeled:
87 - top
87a - center
85 - left
86 - right
30 - bottom
87 & 87a 's prongs are paralell to each other
85, 86 & 30's prongs are paralell to each other
I get the continuity sound probing 87a & 30
i measure about 80 ohms on 85 & 86
nothing at 87
Do I attache 12v's to both 85 & 86?
and probe 87a & 30?
What about 87?
87 - top
87a - center
85 - left
86 - right
30 - bottom
87 & 87a 's prongs are paralell to each other
85, 86 & 30's prongs are paralell to each other
I get the continuity sound probing 87a & 30
i measure about 80 ohms on 85 & 86
nothing at 87
Do I attache 12v's to both 85 & 86?
and probe 87a & 30?
What about 87?
Team Owner
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
85-86 are the relay coil terminals and you put 12v on these terminals to close the relay. 87a and 30 are the normally closed relay contacts and one of those terminals is the moveable arm of the relay which makes contact to one of the remaining terminals when the relay is energized. You need to energize the relay coil and use your ohmeter to see if there is zero ohms between 87a or 30 and any other terminal.
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From: Yonkers NY
I really appreciate all your help with this.
I added 12v to 85 & 86, the relay clicked but it seems The readings stayed the same,I got the same continuity tone on 87a & 30 and nothing from 87.
I then swapped the relay next to it which I believe is the delayed acc bus, but still no start. Where to now?
I added 12v to 85 & 86, the relay clicked but it seems The readings stayed the same,I got the same continuity tone on 87a & 30 and nothing from 87.
I then swapped the relay next to it which I believe is the delayed acc bus, but still no start. Where to now?
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
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From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
I really appreciate all your help with this.
I added 12v to 85 & 86, the relay clicked but it seems The readings stayed the same,I got the same continuity tone on 87a & 30 and nothing from 87.
I then swapped the relay next to it which I believe is the delayed acc bus, but still no start. Where to now?
I added 12v to 85 & 86, the relay clicked but it seems The readings stayed the same,I got the same continuity tone on 87a & 30 and nothing from 87.
I then swapped the relay next to it which I believe is the delayed acc bus, but still no start. Where to now?
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From: Yonkers NY
I think I found the VATS wires an orange wire with 2 small wires inside it connecting to a purple-white wire and a white-black wire. The resistance varied 3.72-4 and the resistance on the key varied 3.71-5. I tried to jump gear selector switch but can't seem to get the cover off the console I found 2 bolts one inside the cup holder and the other inside the arn rest but there must be more.