OK If number one piston is at TDC and both push rods are all the way dow. Where should #6 piston be UP or Down?
That may be the only way I might be able to figure out if I am on compression stroke #1.

 

At the risk of sounding like an idiot (I did not read this whole thread), who cares where tdc is?
You are adjusting the valves, correct?
As long as you are on the base circle of the cam lobe you are trying to adjust, you can adjust that valve.
Roll motor with mocked up rocker, pushrod until the pushrod goes all the way up, then all the way down. Turn crank a wee bit more ( a 1/16th of a turn or so) to ensure you are on the base circle.
Turn nut to zero lash, then go anywhere from 1/4 to 1 1/2 turns.
Once this is complete, repeat 15 times.
Forget about following the firing order, or any other clever way to do it.
1 at a time, in any order you choose.

 

I pose this method as an alternative if you are unable to tell if you are on the compression stroke or not.

Put the number 1 piston at TDC, if you can do it by timing marks or by looking into the cylinder or feeling in the cylinder, it doesn't matter. At that point, adjust ALL of the rockers just to the zero lash position, ie the point were you can't turn the push rod. Now if you turn the crank one turn, half of the rockers should already be tight and half will be loose, adjust the loose ones to zero lash. At this point, you should be ok, but if you want you can turn the crank a half turn and check again for loose pushrods. When they are all at zero lash, then turn all of them one half turn, I have always found one turn to be too much.

As another alternative, if you can get the car to run, is to run it with the valve covers off and one at at time, back off the rocker nut until you can hear a clicking, then go back half a turn. This method works, however it can make a mess and it assumes that they are all tighter than zero lash.

 

It will also be a TDC, compression stroke.

 

make it as easy and simple as possible. Foolproof is always best. Rotate engine until ONE valve is all the way down (open). The other valve on that cylinder is now completely closed with the lifter on the base circle of the cam lobe; adjust this valve. Repeat 15 more times until all valves are adjusted.

 

be carefull, there are two TDC's

without the use of a timing mark i.e, feeling for piston movement, you have to pay close attention to the push "rod's" location. When The Intake valve push rod extends while the piston is moving "Down" This is your intake stroke. While you continue to rotate the Crank by hand the pushrod will slowely drop back down, at this point you will be entering the "Compression" stroke. This is were you need to be! when the piston reach's it's full extension this will be very close to (TDC compression stroke)

The other TDC is the exhaust stroke!
This is probably why your getting confused...

If you still have trouble wrapping your arms around this, Follow Pete's recomendation, and adjust "One" valve at a time, this takes a bit longer but is a bit more fool proof.

 

I have followed everyones guidance to date. The last attempt was as Pete described, guess I did it wrong again. Today I will try again,one more time!

Is there anyone near Savannah Georgia that might be willing to give me a hand?


Its the third try using Petes suggestion, thinking of marking the push rods with a sharpie to make sure its is all the way down before tightening. If failure is still at my doorstep tonight I may get a wrecker in here tomorrow to tow it away. Having no fun and most every inch of my body is paying for it now. What was suppose to be a good learning experience has become a real pain in the backside.


Going to reread all suggestions and try to figure out what I am doing wrong. The guy that was helping me bailed out after attempt number 1. So its me, the radio and the chill thats in the air.

 

Someone please help this guy!

 

Wish I could Playing with the grandsons this week and driving back to Atlanta on Friday.


Tim, when I did mine the first time I took a little bit of red paint and put a dab of it right at the arrow on the balancer. That way I could look at the red dot as I rotated the engine. IIRC one point its TDC 1 and one rotation it becomes TDC 6. I don't have my FSM with me, it has the info in there as well.

 

I feel your pain--I am an old shade-tree mechanic who thought doing an engine rebuild on an 87 Vette would be "fun". Though not very experienced, I had good luck following the TDC at #1 and #6 as out lined in the PM. EXCEPT--the suggested 1 full nut turn after push rods stopped "moving" didnt work. Instead, I adjusted the rockers until they were tight [no side-to-side movement], plus maybe a 1/4 turn. Assuming you didnt move/change the crank shaft and cams, TDC at 1 or 6 gives you a good starting spot--TDC means one of two pistons are in compression stroke. Once you get the rockers on one or six to stop moving at one of the two TDCs positions, you can use a guage or your finger to verify compression stroke. Not very scientific but you can verify all the valves are closing following the 1 and 6 method. By this I mean dont close up the valve covers until you are sure all the rockers remain tight and you get compression on each cylinder via the guage or finger test. This all assumes your seal replacement effort went well and your valves are sealing with the rocker off?????

 

Hope this helps.The firing order for your car is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2.Follow the video.You will know when your on the compression/tdc when the exhaust valve closes then the intake opens then right around when it closes,put a screw driver or something in spark plug hole & slowly turn crankshaft till you feel piston come up to highest point,then mark 12 o'clock position on crank pulley.Turn engine by hand doing this,with both valve covers off... screw it.If I was you I would put all the rockers on the valve tips & lifters,turn the nut one full turn on all the hold down nuts.Start engine with valve covers off(you will have to clean oil off engine after finished adjusting doing this)while engine is running slowly loosen hold down nut till a ticking noise is heard & slowly turn nut until ticking goes away on that cylinder then move to next cylinder doing same thing.After you slowly loosened all nuts till you heard ticking & then slowly tightened back down till ticking just stopped,stop there & do same to next cylinder(no order needed just do all of one side at a time),do all cylinders this way then shut off engine & be ready for a mess.Once engine is off turn each nut another quarter turn then your done.Put valve covers on and degrease engine keeping water away from opti/behind waterpump distributorLook on Youtube if need more help

 

Tim,
very carefully describe your steps to us for review. Take your time and don't leave anything out, I know we can walk you through this, we just need to take it slow and easy.

 

OK here goes. I drove the vet up on the ramps. The enginge was set to TDC #1 rockers were removed one at a time and seals replaced. Once all seals were replaced valve lash was adusted according to FSM. Engine failed to fire, sounded like the valves were open. Mechanic left and will not come back./ I have tried every suggestion given on this site. Today I had and ASE Certified Mechanic come here to readjust the valves. He tried at least 6 times. The vet tried to fire once, he took my money and says he thinks it is an electrical issue.

 

Try #2 first, if it burps, you have other issues, #1do a compression check on all cylinders, that will tell you if the valves are adjusted enough , spin the engine enough on each cylinder to get a good reading. if you get good readings 'at least 80 lbs' on all , the valves are good , #2spray a bit of gas or starter fluid or even wd40 , 'my personal favorite', down the intake, see if it burps and tries to start, #3pull a plug , put the wire back on it, hold it next to a ground , try to start the engine , look for spark. as many times as those have been adjusted and still not running , it could be something else. #4you could not be getting fuel, when you turn the key on , does the fuel pump spin and stop? try #2 first. can you tell I really like #2?

 

One trick I figured out a while back on valve adjustment is to look at how much of the stud is sticking out of the top of the adjusting nut.

I don't know about the later cars, but on my '86 with cast iron heads it measured 0.2" before I took the heads off and the car ran fine when I set it to that after I reassembled it. I measured all the studs on one head and they were all very close to 0.2".

Again, I don't know about the aluminum heads, but I have a vague recollection that the thread pitch on the studs is .087", so you should see about three threads above the top of the adjusting nuts and they should all be approximately the same.

Just for the record, when I did my valve stem seals I backed off the nuts 3 full turns and turned the rocker arms out of the way. I used a spring compressor that clamps on the spring. After replacing the seals I tightened the nuts 3 full turns. No adjustment necessary.

I just thought of something VERY important that is probably relevant here. After you adjust the valves the lifters will leak down and it will be impossible to adjust them correctly until after the engine has run and pumped the lifters back up to their normal height.

 

see the spring, they dont bleed down like that...nomo. when you adjust them , all you are doing is centering the socket in the 'sweet' spot, so it doesnt bounce off of the circlip, hope this helps

 

Going in town today and buy a compression gauge so I can checkl the compression. I may tinker with the valves adjustment throughtout this weekend and if all fails call a wrecker on Monday. I guess I can try #2 also Alaskaman, what can it hurt. Probable use started fluid though.....LOL

Missed these.... We put a plug on the wires and it is sparking. Stuck a funnel in the fuel filler neck and you can hear the pump running, the guy also smelled fuel in the intake. It sure would be nice to be able to smell again, I sure miss the aroma of gas and oil.

 

if you have fuel, and you have spark, do the compression check first, if you dont have compression, its still and adjustment issue. if you have compression, make sure all your electrical connections are good. if you know you're getting fuel, dont use starting fluid. its not good for engines, its only a last resort. WD 40 wont hurt anything used sparingly. make sure you didnt accidently pull any wires loose, the best bet would not to do anything till you do the compression check, that will tell you if you got the valves right or are 180 off, these are only bout $25 or less but money well spent.

 

I've read and reread your posts and pms. I would definetely do a compression test..for piece of mind if nothing else.

but honestly; after all the try's, including professional mechanics, and adjusting valves isn't that much of a mystery...I would begin to look elsewhere. One mechanic said it was an electrical issue ?

in my experience, old ignition wires, while they may have working before, once they are yanked on , pulled on, twisted and otherwise disturbed, develope a zillion little internal breaks along the conductor, especially if they are graphite core wires, and they probably are. And suddenly you have an engine that was running and now won't start.

just because one wire sparked a plug, it doesn't mean the other seven are up to snuff, or that the spark was hot enough, or strong enough to ignite the engine and enable it to run.

I'd start with a new set of wires and work backwards through the ignition system.

but I'd consider the old ignition wires as the primary suspect at this point.

 

if you get good compression, put the plugs in, the plug wires on, and try to start it ..agin. keep it spinning till the oil preasure comes up. if you have gas, spark ,compression, only other thing holding it back might be oil preasure switch. double check plug wire location aka firing order