So, I have not had a chance to get my clutch master installed and I went in the car yesterday and the battery was dead again after sitting for about 1 week. Had this problem before on the 2 year old Bosch battery -it has a 3 year replacement warranty.
Again, it won't charge unless I pull the cables -now it charges.
When I hook the charger just up to the cables, there is a huge draw -if everything is "off", what should I be looking for as a source?
Oh and here is another weird thing. I also tried to check the engine oil and the dip stick would not come out -pulled so hard that I broke off the handle. Twisted it with vice grips and finally got it out -and about 1/2 way down there is a weld mark -how do you explain this happening?

 

When I bought my car, the Bose radio had an internal draw that kept killing the battery.

 

There are plenty of relays to malfunction and draw current. Best to mount a battery disconnect switch on the negative batt. terminal and turn it off. Also a good anti theft and safety device. Had a friend with a nice restored chevelle that had a mouse or rat in the engine compartment and it chewed the hot wire coming off the alternator and caused a big short and engine fire. Luckily he was home at the time and saved the garage from burning down but the engine compartment was toast!

 

I did take out an after market radio last year and install the original Bose.
But would it draw that hard?

 

Get the system charged and know that the car runs, then pull the radio fuse.......And wait. There's a chance of it being the radio, but I think there are more likely suspects than that, are there courtisy lights staying on, maybe a fan? Was that radio used from a junk-yard or the original? Maybe it was taken out for a reason.

 

As far as that dip-stick thing, maybe the car was getting "blow-by" and that was done to keep the stick from popping out, just a theory.

 

Get the battery charged and connect everything.
Then make certain that the interior lites go off when doors close.
make sure there are no noises or clicks from under the hood....

Get your ohm meter and connect it between the hot side and the terminal side of your fuses and check each one like this. One WILL show a drain or flow in the circuit. This will lead you to whatevery system is staying "hot" after the ign is turned off.

I recently had a bad MAF relay that (burn-off) that was sticking and using power all nite. Next morning the battery would be near dead and sometimes flat if the car wasn't driven for a few days...
Fuel relay will also do this. Underhood lites as well.
Aftermarket alarms and stereo boom-box amps and noise makers will short and suck a battery dry.

A bad diode in the alternator lets the power drain backwards in the system when its turned off. D/C the alt plug to see if that stops the drain.

If no volt/ohms meter is available, charge and connect everything and with key OFF start pulling fuses and see if anything happens. You MIGHT get lucky and see some tiny spark if you hit the fuse thats got a large draw on it. Otherwise, pull fuses in groups or 5 and try to isolate it that way until you find the group of 4 or 5 that make a difference and then go one at a time until you find the right circuit.
If you have a FSM you can use a test lite to check and see what circuits are still getting power when the key is off...usually any orange wires are "hot always" and not in the fuse box, but fusable links under the battery. The FSM drawings will tell you which circuits should be off when the key is off.
Good luck, electrical can be a b!tch !

The dipstick probably tried a hillbilly repair or made a "new" stick if there was not the proper replacement available.
Personally I would have used tie-wire to hold it in place if the blow-by was so bad that it spit it out...then again, if I hadn't removed the PCV and other emissions stuff that harms nothing, it would probaly be ok...but tie wire is more fun and original.

 

Thanks! I actually brought the battery back to Pep Boys and it tested bad -they gave a new one. It is the same Bosch, with another 3 year warranty. I will put it in an do the above, because I'm not so sure that my car didn't kill it with some wierd problem!

The interior lights go off -the timer was bad, so last year I made the change to have the courtesty lights just go on and off -I found how to make that change somewhere on this site.
The hood light are not a problem, since I see those lights go off even before the hood is all the way down.

Regarding the weirdest part -I have owned the car for almost 3 years and the dip stick was fine.
However, last year I was pulling out the dip stick and it actually HARD arked to the cross fire air cleaner housing when I hit it. I took the housing off and poked around and it didn't do it when I put the dip stick back in.
It was fine until the other day and the ark bead was on the dipstick about 1/2way down. It was like a small tack weld, which was never there before.
Anyone have any ideas on what could cause this, because it is just too strange and I have never blown a fuse since I've had the car.

 

That is strange, maybe whatever caused that ark is at the root of your electrical issue. What did the stick touch? and why did it have power?

 

This is what I thought.
My car wiring is all stock and appears to be in good shape with no obvious splicing etc. so somthing must be broken or bare or?

The first time I was pulling the dipstick and before it was out of the tube, I touched the metal air cleaner housing.
The second time the dipstick was in place and I found it welded to the interior of the dip stick tube.

Since it is on the same side, maybe some starter wiring or the starter or solinoid has a short?
Could that cause the battery drain down and not blow a fuse or link or cause an electrical fire?

 

Ya know,

That pos battery cable wraps a long way around the back of the block to get to the starter...although it is in a sleeve to protect it from grounding out, it is entirely possible that its grounding on the block. I'd jack the car up and look at that cable real close...and inspect every inch.

Having voltage strong enough to cause arcing and leave a physical weld spot is beyond dangerous...seems like I recall something about a big tank in the rear somewhere..

Heck, I thought you were describing something on the stick that the previous owner might have done...wow! yeah, I think I;'d be leaving those battery cables disconnected until I found exactly what was going on. This might justify a tow to an auto-electric shop. Don't waste you time and money of radiator shops that do auto electric, or some other generic shop that does electric on the side, find a REAL auto electric shop and they can find the problem in 15 minutes and you can do the repair. Last time I used one cost me $75 for them to diagnose (less than 1 hr)after I had been screwing around for 2 weeks. They have some cool tools that they can plug in and the display will actually tell then which way to look on a wire for a direct ground, a short to another circuit..whatever the problem may be. They're equipped as specialist and worth every penny of their fee.

If you are still going to try to diagnose it yourself, be safe and d/c the fuel pump at the pump so there is no chance of voltage thru the grounds or some harness short causing a wire to glow IN the tank,... Arcing in the dipstick tube...what if that had been INSIDE the fuel tank? Between the steel lines on the pump assembly?

Good luck and be safe !

I don't care what the science says, electricity and gasoline still scare the crap outta me ! I get nervous like the pig that knows he's for dinner everytime I have to get in the tank.

 

That really makes sense, it may have a worn spot that has a hit or miss crack or worn spot in the cover and insulation.
Based on all of your feedback and what I have eliminated, my plan of attack is;

Check the positive cable for any bare/ shorting spots. If bad, I'll replace it.

After that, I'll get the new battery in and see if the "big" drain is gone -there are some things that always draw a little.

I'll use the FSM drawings to see which circuits should be off when the key is off. I''ll use the FSM & a test light to check and see which circuits are still getting power when the key is off and make sure that they should.

I'll also get out the ohm meter and connect it between the hot side and the terminal side of individual fuses -looking for one that stays on to see if a system is staying "hot" after the ignition is turned off.

Listen for relay noises or clicks from under the hood.

Check fuel relay, to see if it stays hot.

I’ll disconnect the alternator plug to see if that stops the drain.

Does this sound like the basic steps that I should take at this point -or do others have additional steps that would be recommended after the possive battery cable is checked?

Thanks,
Glen

 

Yeah, Its a tough call as to which to begin with but as long as you start somewhere you are heading in the right direction. That pos cable to the starter would be my 1st stop, then go thru the relays by process of elimination based on sounds, operation and so forth.
You get the idea....

That arcing sure scares me ...in the dipstick tube. Thats bizarre.
The more I try to think that thru the more confusing it gets, arcing comes from close proximity from pos & neg.
How could the frame ( that WAS ground or earth) become charged and the stick inside the tube remain grounded, thru the oil perhaps ? or vice versa? Ok, assuming the block was now hot, then everything else would have to be as well since there are ground wires/cables from block to frame and battery. The block is too much mass to glow like a light bulb filement when charged...not near the amperage to do that but it could conceivably carry the 12v and a bunch of battery amperage. But why didn't something melt-down, like fuses or fusable links? Strange.

Was the car hit by lightning? I know of one that was...and had all kinds of issues but the owner was a genius and corrected it all.

back to the source of the confusion... (many sources in my case)

It almost has to be a direct short to ground by the big cable. Nothing else can carry that kind of a load and not melt away from the heat generated by a short with that kind of amperage. Battery amps is enough to weld with...its DC and its strong...so the cable or cable connection has to be the problem..unless it was hit by lightning !

I'm definately going to be waiting for the outcome on this !

 

Glen,
The very first thing I would check is the main engine ground that grounds the engine to the frame. The dipstick was probably just acting like the ground cable that is either loose, corroded or missing.
The throttle cable can also be damaged like that if the starter is seeking a good ground.
Your FSM should show you where all the grounds are. When you are convinced that all the grounds are good, get an el cheapo Harbor Freight meter (they have a 10A scale for the ammeter) and put it between the negative battery terminal and the disconnected negative cable connector. Do NOT turn on the ignition or attempt to start the engine, it will blow the meter fuse instantly. You are looking for a 50 ma drain if it's good. Anything much higher and you have some researching to do but disconnecting stuff and pulling fuses until you get the current drain into the 50ma area.

Mick

 

Grab a multimeter and start pulling fuses. When the current drops, you've found your circuit.

 

There was a late 60's Pontiac with a floor mounted automatic transmission shifter that had a small ground strap from the back of the engine to the firewall. If that ground strap was not connected the transmission shifter cable would burn out because it became the ground instead. We had one come in the station where I worked with a bad shifter cable and my boss opened the hood right away looking for that ground strap and it was missing - he said it was a common problem. Sounds like your dipstick issue.

You would think that the main ground on the block where the negative cable goes would be able to do all the grounding. But what if there is say a 3 volt drop between the main negative cable at the block and the battery during cranking? That would put the block 3 volts higher than the chassis during cranking. That 3 volts would then look for an alternate path back to the battery, maybe that's the reason for a smaller "auxiliary" ground. I don't know if the C4 has one, I should look in my FSM.

 

I had two projects and not enough time this weekend. I also had to replace the clutch master and slave -which went real well!
On the Gremlins project, I looked at the gounds, and they all looked fine -the main one from the frame near the battery, going to the engine on the DS was clearly all set.
So, I put in the new battery just to see if the previous battery was the problem -I went over to the dip stick and pulled it and I could hear an ark and sizziling in the tube!
I quickly pulled the negative cable!
Funny thing is that the interior lights and everything was working, even with the dip stick deal.
So, I hooked up the multi meter to the negative side as indicated and it blew the fuse.
I am going to get the car jacked up tonight and look at the starter/ positive cable area and wiring -I picked up a new positive cable.
My question is; if the positive wire is shorting out, would that explain the Mulitimeter fuse blowing the way it did?

 

I honestly cannot explain reversed polarity without :

either a polar shift thats likely to take place in the next 100,000 yrs (estimated)
or
a nuclear detonation with its EMP (electromagnetic pulse) but you;d notice that...

so, I dunno

 

Yes,
If the positive cable to the starter is touching ground ANYWHERE it will definitely be enough to blow the meter fuse. There is nothing 'reversed' about the polarity.

On the dipstick, unbolt the dipstick tube and remove it. Measure between the mounting bolt and the block (I assume the mounting bolt is on the right side head like mine). If there is any potential (voltage) then you have a ground problem between where the tube mounts and the block.

Mick

 

Just to make sure I was clear, I touched the negative terminal of the battery with one lead and the disconected negative cable with the other side -and that popped the Multimeter fuse.

I'm going to replace the positive cable & when I get the car up to take a look at the wiring near the starter etc, hopefully something looks shorted.
Thanks,
Glen