More clutch issues.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
More clutch issues.
I was having a disengagement issue a whole back. Which I somewhat fixed. It disengaged and engaged but it didn't feel like it used to. I've been completely aggravated with it so I didn't bother driving it for a while because of all the rain/flooding we've been having. So it was nice out today took it for a spin and in third at wot after 3500 it starts to slip. Carolina clutch recommended this setup and have no idea why it was having prior issues. It's got new bell housing(with shims), master cylinder, slave cylinder, fork and pivot. I am going to pull it apart again this week to see what the hell is going on. What would cause this???? It's been a complete pain.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 43
From: shavertown Pa.
If it's slipping, it can't be engaging all the way, do you possibly have too much fluid in the res.
The fluid expands as it gets hot and pushes the slave against the fork I have seen this before.
Have you looked at the possibility of shorting the clutch rod or giving yourself more freeplay at the master?
The fluid expands as it gets hot and pushes the slave against the fork I have seen this before.
Have you looked at the possibility of shorting the clutch rod or giving yourself more freeplay at the master?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
Pressed all the way in its about a 1/2" past the disenegaged point. So all the way out gas to be engaged. And it will do this on a cold or hot engine. I checked this morning to see if temp effected it. It's a 96 and as far as I know there is no adjustment.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 43
From: shavertown Pa.
Before you pull it out, take off the slave and see if there is any free play in the fork itself.
there should be a little free play in the fork, it should move a 1/8 to 1/4" away from the pressure plate fingers.
If the fork doesn't have a bit of movement it's not disengaging all the way, it''s like driving with the clutch slightly depressed.
I hope you find it without having to pull it out, I hate taking the same car apart twice myself.
there should be a little free play in the fork, it should move a 1/8 to 1/4" away from the pressure plate fingers.
If the fork doesn't have a bit of movement it's not disengaging all the way, it''s like driving with the clutch slightly depressed.
I hope you find it without having to pull it out, I hate taking the same car apart twice myself.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
The tuning program had a an issue during a flash the other day and it wouldn't recover so I had to dig out my other PCM to get it to run So i could get it in the building at work and I didn't get a chance to check it today but will go in early tomorrow and get somewhere with it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 482
From: H-Town Texas
I have two thoughts for possibilites, aka WAG's.
One, are the pressure plate bolts torqued correctly? If following the procedure of a star pattern with no more than one turn on each bolt, it is possible to miss something. Torqued to 33 ft/lbs? This could cause the pressure plate to lose some clamping force?
Also, how many miles of normal, non spirited driving, were put on the set up after install. If the clutch disk isn't allowed a break in period, it can glaze which this would be a symptom. I put about 500 miles on mine before I tried anything like a WOT run.
One, are the pressure plate bolts torqued correctly? If following the procedure of a star pattern with no more than one turn on each bolt, it is possible to miss something. Torqued to 33 ft/lbs? This could cause the pressure plate to lose some clamping force?
Also, how many miles of normal, non spirited driving, were put on the set up after install. If the clutch disk isn't allowed a break in period, it can glaze which this would be a symptom. I put about 500 miles on mine before I tried anything like a WOT run.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
PP was triple checked. As far as spirited driving I'd say there is about 200 miles on it all city. But I would ASSUME that a stage 2 clutch could handle a moderate to full throttle rip here and there. I don't do any funny shifting or bsing. I tossed my wideband on to check my tune because I had an iac that went out on me and I had been tuning it prior to that and the previous clutch issue. I just pulled the slave and it has play in it hen the clutch is engaged. I'm leaning towards a piece of junk pressure plate at this point. There is no leaks of any kind and its never been what I thought as it should feel like as far as disengagement and bite. I liked my stage 3 much better.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 482
From: H-Town Texas
I think what I would do at this point, in this situation, assuming that the TO bearing and everything looks good, and there's no glazing on the disc, may be to take some maroon scothbrite and scuff up the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces a bit. Then start the break in period over.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 111
I have the same set up (Stage 2 from Carolina) with 332 rwhp on a Dynomite machine; No slippage issues here...just a nasty clutch chatter in reverse, but not terrible....
Have you called Tom at Carolina Clutch as described your issue to him? He might give you some insight.....
Good luck and let us know .....
Have you called Tom at Carolina Clutch as described your issue to him? He might give you some insight.....
Good luck and let us know .....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,482
Likes: 196
From: folsom california
I can only relate a couple of things that have bit me in the *ss on doing clutch jobs in the hope that maybe it will give you some ideas:
(one) I had a flywheel that had a "wobble"; the flywheel was flat and true, but the smallest imaginable burr on the crankshaft flange caused a 0.040" wobble at the flywheel outer rim; and,
(two) and I doubt this is your case with new parts, but I did have a pressure plate that was warped; and,
(three) excessive wear on the crankshaft thrust bearing allowed the crank / flywheel/ clutch to move back and forth making smooth predictable engagement / disengagement impossible.
(one) I had a flywheel that had a "wobble"; the flywheel was flat and true, but the smallest imaginable burr on the crankshaft flange caused a 0.040" wobble at the flywheel outer rim; and,
(two) and I doubt this is your case with new parts, but I did have a pressure plate that was warped; and,
(three) excessive wear on the crankshaft thrust bearing allowed the crank / flywheel/ clutch to move back and forth making smooth predictable engagement / disengagement impossible.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,940
Likes: 43
From: shavertown Pa.
I would send the pressure plate back for an replacement, and get a fresh clutch and put it back together.
If it only had a few hundred miles on it I'm sure it's still under some kind of warranty
It's possible something happened inside the PP that you can't see without taking it apart, send it back.
If it only had a few hundred miles on it I'm sure it's still under some kind of warranty
It's possible something happened inside the PP that you can't see without taking it apart, send it back.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
I talked to Tom. He is sending me a replacement disc. I'm not really sure that's going to fix it. It slips in first and second. Didn't bother with the rest. It's not the thrust bearing, I checked it out.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 16,253
Likes: 1,657
From: Arizona
Spoke with Tom myself a few days ago and too bad they do not continue the RPS Stage 3+ set up. Says they did away with it a few years back and went with the 1/2 Carbon set up. The RPS Stage 3+ was a GREAT clutch for me. Pedal effort was a chore, but I appreciated that. Felt solid.
Hope you get your clutch issues sorted out.
Hope you get your clutch issues sorted out.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,543
Likes: 3,216
From: Park City Utah
Well man....I hate to sound like a goober, but are you SURE it's slipping? And not some tire spin? It's way more likely that it's tire spin in 1st, than clutch slippage as the clutch as such a huge mechanical advantage over the tires in 1st. That's why I asked about 5th/6th gears. If it slips in those....it's clear and something is wrong. If it doesn't...then NO WAY can it slip in a lower gear ration. Can't do it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,479
Likes: 565
From: Clearwater Florida
..... The symptoms sound more like a hydraulic / actuation problem ... are you sure you have the correct throw-out bearing ? there are two different diameters available for the ZF trans ...........