Anyone try these

http://www.trickflow.com/search.asp?...=KeywordSearch

They have a 195 head but LT4 intake manifold will not line up.

Now have ported oe LT4 heads with stock valves. Curious if they are worth the expense.

Thanks

 

Big gain noticeable? Hard to say without knowing more about yours you have.

 

I went with the GMPP lean burns on my L98 mated to the TPIS mini-ram

 

I looked into these. I wanted to go trick flow because total engine airflow (they port them) is local to me.

I did tons and tons of research. I read many threads here, ls1Lt1 Forum, camaroz28 Forum etc.

Afr comp eliminator ported 195 Is just so much better of a head in every way imaginable. they offer a bunch of cc choices (so you can tailor compression ratio to what you want). they come pre assembled with valves, springs, etc in place.

If that doesnt make up yhour mind, find the threads on comparing trickflows best with lloyd elliot stage 3 PORT JOB vs afr 195 Comp eliminator.

The camaro they did this on made more dyno power and was faster at the track with the afr heads.

Afr 195 Comp eliminator heads flow as good as ls3 Heads.

Imho afr makes it dumb to do an lsx swap onto an lt1 Car (well unless you are swapping in an ls7)

Finally, I didnt save any money vs. afr if I went with trickflow after I paid tea or lloyd elliot to port them.

Some things to consider.

 

Details might help.

96 LT4 six speed GS. 383 with 10.5 comp, CC 306, 1.6 rockers, 1 3/4 long tubes with hi flo cats and 3" exhaust. Will probably run 30 lb injectors and 52mm TB. Running 3.45 gears and have 4.10's available. Used for track, autocross, and street. Has A/C and all amenities working. mail order tune will follow since dyno tuners have quit messing with these.

Thanks

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1578913985-post4.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1578921727-post8.html

I wouldn't let you put them on my car even if it was free unless it was a bare head and even then, probably not unless I was selling it.

Edit: I would bury you alive next to an anthill and pour honey on your head if you attempted to put TFS stuff on my car other than to prevent it rolling back when I am working on it. Did I mention I don't like TFS?

 

Those were the first gen heads I think gonna guess these LTx heads dont have that issue. Or would hope not


383 with a cam with your useage Id pass on the TFS and go with a 195 comp port or even a 210 afr. Sucker will wake up!

Theres a thread a few yrs ago titled "David vs. Goliath comparison of two heads" something like that in C4 tech. Cant find it but I suck with the search function. That will tell you what you need to know.

 

In fairness we were discussing the SBC Twisted Wedge and Twisted Wedge G2 TFS heads in that thread.... both of which they no longer mfgr.

The heads being cited here are the conventional 23* heads.

I looked at these newer LTX heads at PRI when they were first released a few yrs ago. I didn't like the SSR (or the way the choke transition into the valve bowl) was laid out in the castings as delivered OTB - but that is nothing that a competent cyl head porter couldn't fix.

That said once you bought a set of these heads and had them ported by the right people you'd be into some serious $$$.... You'd have a serious cyl head too....

CF member "neat" did a test between a set of LE ported TFS 23* heads and AFR 195's on his 91 Corvette with a 383 a while ago as well. The AFR's won out by a small margin on the dyno and at the track.

Even thou I have built a LTX 383 (and documented it here on CF) with the new AFR 195 elim I will not build anymore using them.... From now on it'll be 210's on even the mildest 383's. It's not that you can't build a decent engine with the 195 but the 210's velocity profile and MCSA at the pushrod pinch point is better suited to a 3.75" or longer stroke engines. You give up nothing running the bigger 210 cyl head on a 383 or bigger engine.

GS023 - on a second note I think your static compression ratio is a tad low for the CC306 camshaft... yo could pick up a bunch of power by going something with less advertised duration or bumping the compression up to 11.5 or better if you want to keep the 306.
Will

 

Yes you are right the first time they fooled me, shame on them. Next time, shame on me. If that is the best foot forward you put, why would I trust you to do any better? I question the QC of the company and whether they have improved it since then.

Probably but all the hardware will be removed by them and the right people would replace it with quality hardware so all we have is just the bare head with brand new stuff made by reputable companies backed by a reputable builder so it might not be the worst thing.

Probably if both are ported right, I would suspect that it might come out to what you said. However, having paid for the LPE short block to be broken just soured me on TFS stuff.

 

Will...I bought and sized my afr 195 Comp elim at 61cc. this works out to 9.7:1 On stock lt1 Or 10.3:1 On a 383 With minimal dish (cant remember what dish size I was using).

My hopes were to transfer these afr 195 Comp elim to a 383 mild forged Boosted build someday.

When funds replenish, I will put a bgger head, bigger blower and go from mild to wild.

If I understand you, you are saying these heads arent the optimum choice? Going from a 195 To 210, both Comp ported, picked up minimal increase in cfm. is there something I am missing?

Sorry to thread hijack..

 

I owned both the Trickflow 195s and the AFR 195s and it was night and day difference in the quality of the AFRs over the trickflows.

 

Heads or hardware?

 

Without getting onto engine building theroy too much... it would get into a few math formulas and some just plain old engine building experience that I won't give away.

However if you search on yellowbullet or speedtalk for a cyl head porter named Chad Speier he's posted a number of formulas that show how to determine ideal port velocity per MCSA or port volume. I don't agree 100% with all his theroy's but that free info he's given away is very good info that many professionals have used for far longer than I've been doing this.

So the way I prefer to do things dosen't have so much to do with how much air or CFM a cyl head flows... it's important to me but not the most important thing. And comparing that 300CFm from an AFR195 to the 300CFm from an AFR 210 is apples and oranges.

The most important thing is air speed (velocity profile) and the size of the port at its smallest point... AKA MSCA (in a 23* SBC this is the pushrod pinch).... That last thing (MCSA) you can actually corrolate (ball park anyway) to engine size and RPM range if you know the right math.

I'm not going to get into every single other engine detail that I use to determine this stuff but on most normally aspriated 383's trying to make useable power between 3000 and 6500RPM - IMO if your going to use AFR heads, the AFR 210 is a better choice than the 195.

Not saying the 195 is bad head. Quite the oposite, but you've got alot of uneducated (maybe under educated) people throwing around port volume numbers and flow bench CFM numbers like they can some how corrolate those 2 things into how big of an engine these heads can feed and infact these things are never that simple.

Will an AFR 195 feed a 383? YES. It will make decent power too.

Is an AFR 195 ideal? NO.

Besides we are talking about store bought mass produced cyl heads here.... IDEAL dosen't exist. Hell the 210 isn't ideal for 99% of them either but since we all can't spend millions of hrs to develop a port just for our little street engine we buy what fits best. Like I said IMO the 210 is a better compromise for a 383.

Honestly on a supercharged 383 LTX engine (with any blower bigger than a Pro Charger D1 or Vortec T trim) I'd run the AFR 227 or have some other casting hand ported to suit. If your were running a D1/T trim or smaller I'd be happy with the 210 but I think the bigger 227 could offer some advantages with the camshaft and driveability v/s power output.

Will

 

Heads. I had some side by side pics put can't find them now.

 

Head wise, what would you say is the difference in build quality? TIA

 

I have use Trick flow heads and they have worked well for me.

 

The trickflows just looked like a stock cast head. With the AFRs you could see the CNC machining that went in to them. It looked like someone had gone over the heads and removed the ruff casting bits in places that it wasn't necessary.