What one does with the bearings is what makes it the Best. Like drilling small oil feeds in the thrust bearing surface to force feed it and getting all of your targeted clearances that are proper for the combo ur running. I've seen .004 to .0045 on the mains run in a high hp motor peaking at 7800 in a 327 after 40 or so runs on a tear-down look like the day they went in but the assembled .003 to .004 on the thrust wore in to .006.
Set up and perfect balancing is the key.

 

I personally perfer to use the KING XP series bearings in an endurance type or any kind of engine that is going to have very high loads placed on the oil wedge (ie Super Charged or Turbo applications).

The KING HP series bearing would also be a decent choice but it's softer and I try not to use them in high load engines reguardless if it's an endurance or drag racing application.

The FM race bearing is also a very good bearing, as are the Clevite 77 tri metals... I would stay away from the Clevite "V" series for your application.
Will

 

Unless you machine a groove or drill some kind of oil galley into the rear main saddle, modifying the thrust bearing like that won't force feed anything.....

If you look at a SBC block sometime you will see there is only one oil feed hole in the rear main saddle and it's no where near the thrust surface. That oil feed in the rear main feeds the 7-8 rod journals as well as the main... not sure I'd be keen on bleeding off any oil pressure under the bearing at that location for the thrust surface.

I wouldn't bee keen on drilling holes in the main saddle or grooves in it either since that would weaken the main structure of the block in a critical area.

If anything needs to be done with a thrust bearing we take a grinder and extend (up towards the journal surface) the oil slot windows on the outside of the bearing itself.... that allows more oil to bleed off between the journal and main bearing out to the thrust surface.

On serious turbo drag engines that have to spool up and sit on a trans brake we machine the block and crankshaft on the number 1 main journal for a rollerized Torrington thrust bearing.

Like this one that was done at Steve Morris Racing Engines.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...s/176_1199.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...s/176_1196.jpg

Will

 

Ok. The bearings in it are the KING HP series bearings.

 

This is why I ask questions on this forum. There are a few very knowledgeable guys on here that KNOW their stuff! !

 

The HP is a bi-metal bearing and the upper layer is a very soft material and it's much thicker than the upper material layer on other bearings.... Extreme force placed on that layer will actually force it to physically deform before the oil wedge collaspes... it's very easy and forgiving on crankshaft brg surfaces but the deformation is why it is not a good choice for forced induction engines in an endurace application.

It's s good choice for lower powered engines that run in very dirty conditions like dirt track stuff, general high performance N/A street cars or High HP very short duration engines like N/A or Nitrous drag engines....

In the latter type engines we replace brgs every season so the wear or deformation of the upper layer of brg material is not a big factor and the soft brg is actually a blessing to help with the hammering on the crankshaft.

The XP is a tri-metal construction bearing. It physically stronger and it takes alot more pressure to deform the upper layer of bearing material because that top layer is much thinner and supported by 2 layers of increasingly harder material under it.

The XP is a much better bearing for your application IMO.
Will

 

I have use the Clevite tri metal in quite a few builds with good results. Most looked almost new when the motor was torn down.

I agree with several others that something is wrong with the line bore and/or installation since your bearing wear is so uneven in spots and a noticeable line at the parting line.

Good luck.

 

Thanks guys. I'll have clay look over everything and see what it's going to take to fix it. Hopefully the line hone is fixable.

 

Here are a couple of pics of the cylinder walls. I pilled the heads tonight..

 

me thinks those main bearings didn't have enough clearance; your one photo shows a .010 bearing, which is .010 inch thicker to compensate for a crank that was ground .010 inch undersize; I'd do a quick plastigage check on those main bearings

 

Really. Grooving or drilling a main saddle, Bleeding off a main bearing oil feed. Did you forget Notching connecting rods for a long stroked block interference, as another Trick. All Stuff you Assumed. Ever hear of or seen oil windage and oil bearing Bleed off with .003 bearing clearance at the cap? Ever think of using that to place oil without taking your grinder out. Thanxs for the advise but not everyone forks over a grand for a rollerized thrust bearing or wants something ground away on their main bearings.
Ow and ya, ur links when visited are Infected with a Virus. Warning when clicking on those.

 

..... Unless those holes are drilled into a pressurized oil galley there is no force feeding of oil to the thrust bearing surface ... it accomplishes nothing .........

 

You need to put the crack pipe down.

I don't offer my knowlege here unless I believe the info provides somethng useful to the member in need. There's also a reason people listen when I say something. Yea I know, everybody's an expert on the internetz..... but if you search my post (going back some 9yrs here - so there's plenty of info) you'll probally figure out why that is.

If you pay attention, you might actually learn something important. Instead you're constantly innodating every semi -technical discussion thread on this board with useless drivel.

What you proposed by drilling holes in the thrust surface of the brg by itself will do NOTHING.

You can either do things the right way and make an oil path by grooving the saddle or drilling a galley in the main web....

Or you can screw around and drill holes in thrust face of brg that does nothing (except destroy a perfectly good brg). The back side of that thrust brg is seated againts the main web.... in such case oil can't get to all the the holes you drilled to "force feed" anything.

Will

 

Just an update guys! The motor is completely apart. The bearings where not as bad as I thought. The thrust bearing was a bit wore but not terribly. I think the wear was due to my oil breaking down. I should have used a 50 weight oil vs the Mobile one I was running. Big learning experience there. Also the Blackness of the oil is fuel from fouling a set of plugs out that where to cold for the engine.

I took the block, crank, heads all in to get inspected and cleaned before I put it back together. The shop that built the engine originally was supposed to have checked the seat pressure of my springs and I guess they didnt. I had them checked today, the exhaust was 113 lbs and intake was 100! Not nearly enough for the cam and RPM this thing sees. I can honestly say I will never trust another performance shop to do any work for me again.

Anyway I hope to start putting it back together next week. Im going with wills recommendation and using KING XP rod and main bearings. Everything else has checked out good and its going back together will all the "old" parts. Then Off to a tuner to be tuned right and I am going to do nothing but enjoy driving the car next year.

 

Gawd.

Im reading this and its making me happy i stuck with the stock bottom end (like the c5/6 fi guys do) for my power goals.

Yes, i know you will get this fixed and make 700 rwhp, but you probably have more patience then i do.

Ive seen this happen so many times on here over the past 13 years.

Guy spends $$$ to build motor and it doesnt work.

I think id be better building my motor as a first timer in my barn vs. Take it to these so called shops.

There are a few exceptions like will and jim barth who seem to get it right every time, but they are just that...exceptions.

you'll get this right and exceed me. Good luck and stick to your guns with tpis.

 

I fully expect to tear mine down shortly after I get it running. LOL Nothing has gone easy with this build. The down side is I really have no-one to blame but myself. Good luck.

 

The valve springs have to be tested for the correct pressure @ installed height right out of the box. I have been battling with this for years with my suppliers. I was on the phone with a major valve train supplier once trying to get a set of springs replaced. I had him pull a new set off the shelf and measure them. They were way off spec.

 

Thanks and Im not sure if I really have patience at this time in the game. More like drive to get it done. I hate failing at anything or not finishing anything and this car is no exception. I have decided to do everything myself this time around. I am going to do the full rebuild and take my time. I will post pics as I go!!

Lol that will be the way I see it this time. No one to blame but myself!

Thanks for the input. The springs are being setup to my specs. 1.900 install height will get me 165 on the seat and roughly 430 open with .600 lift. Everyone of them have been checked and all are on the money.

I took alot of your guys advvice and sent the oil out for analysis. I have a feeling there was a oiling issue. Most likely the oil I used was to thin for the power range I am at. I dropped the ball on that and this is the first engine I have put together to make 700+ hp at the crank.

The only other issue I can think of is the fueling problem and all the fuel that got in the pan from the plugs fouling out. I should have changed the oil immediately after that happened but I didnt. I took the car out and made a few pulls with it. Big mistake on my part.

The block is good to go. the mains are all on size and straight. The bearings could have been on the tight side but I cant confirm that right now. I will put the bearings back in and torque it all down with plastigauge when I get it back from the machine shop to to check.

Anyway thanks for all the input guys and I will post some more pics of the thing going back together soon!

 

I hear Joe Gibbs LS oil is pretty good. I will be only using that from here on out after my motor is finished. The owner before me put in a cast cam in and it pitted throughout the motor. I use nothing but Mobile 1 5-30 and changed frequently due to the p600b. Just a thought for future insurance.

 

Thanks!

I am going to go with 15/50 amsoil this time around.