Lets talk injectors.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
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From: Amateur driver on open course.
Lets talk injectors.
Got the new MAD catalog. I have been thinking about new injectors. The Accel's are the ones I like. The improved throttle response is a strong selling point, but is it worth it? Will there be a feelable difference in power? Anyone else done this?
Team Owner
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From: Athens AL
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (95AquaC4)
You dont need bigger injectors unless youve changed the cam, even then you dont usually need them. If you want new injectors just for fun, then get the Ford SVO #24's, theyre cheaper and they work better.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (95AquaC4)
New injectors don't give you any more power. They just restore your idle, start ups and throttle response to what it used to be when your car was new or in good condition. If it runs just fine you don't feel anything with the new ones. Note that idle and other problems could also be caused by other stuff than injectors.
You only need bigger injectors when you have upgraded your engine so much that the old injectors don't flow enough. There is many calculators in the net to help you estimate the correct injector size. Note that your fuel pressure also changes the actual flow rate of any injector. The adverticed lbs flow rate is measured at some given fuel pressure, vette originals and Accells at 43.5lbs and Fords at 39lbs - so fords flow more than their rated figure when installed in Vette with stock pressure.
If your injectors are in bad shape (bad spray pattern or leaking) you have 2 options: get new ones or rebuild old ones. You can get the Accels much cheaper from other places than MAD, Ecklers etc.
http://www.cruzinperformance.com/ can sell you Accels too or they will rebuild your old ones for about $80 per set.
Greetings,
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 1:48 PM 8/15/2002]
You only need bigger injectors when you have upgraded your engine so much that the old injectors don't flow enough. There is many calculators in the net to help you estimate the correct injector size. Note that your fuel pressure also changes the actual flow rate of any injector. The adverticed lbs flow rate is measured at some given fuel pressure, vette originals and Accells at 43.5lbs and Fords at 39lbs - so fords flow more than their rated figure when installed in Vette with stock pressure.
If your injectors are in bad shape (bad spray pattern or leaking) you have 2 options: get new ones or rebuild old ones. You can get the Accels much cheaper from other places than MAD, Ecklers etc.
http://www.cruzinperformance.com/ can sell you Accels too or they will rebuild your old ones for about $80 per set.
Greetings,
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 1:48 PM 8/15/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: down that one road next to that big tree
Re: Lets talk injectors. (ToniH)
if you have a basically stock engine, go with cruzin...if you want 24's the fords are wonderful..for the love of god please don't buy accel injectors :p:
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (95AquaC4)
Anyone seen this? How accurate is it?
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/fuel_injector.php
If this is accurate then my stock injectors are OVERKILL for a 240hp engine. Even with all the mods I'm currently doing the stock injectors are plenty.
Here is another calculator. I'm no FI pro but I gather this one is for raising the pressure on a given injector. Even with this one all I need to do is raise the FP to 42 and it will have the equivalent of a 24# injector.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html
[Modified by War Machine, 10:37 AM 8/15/2002]
http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/fuel_injector.php
If this is accurate then my stock injectors are OVERKILL for a 240hp engine. Even with all the mods I'm currently doing the stock injectors are plenty.
Here is another calculator. I'm no FI pro but I gather this one is for raising the pressure on a given injector. Even with this one all I need to do is raise the FP to 42 and it will have the equivalent of a 24# injector.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/fiflowcalc.html
[Modified by War Machine, 10:37 AM 8/15/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (War Machine)
Seems to be accurate but the default BSFC of 0.85 is incorrect, you need to put 0.45 in there to make it work right.
Yes your stock injectors are plenty for you even if you do some mods. Here is my argument:
19-22lbs/hr (GM rating) is the ok for stock L98 cars and 22 is enough up to 305hp so they work with stock LT-1 cars too. Actually 17.5lbs would be sufficient for stock L-98's but it is recommended to go 1 bigger ie. 19lbs. For some reason GM used even bigger ones with Vettes so 22 is ok as the computer can compensate.
Ford 19's flow 20.6 lbs with stock press and 21.5 lbs @ 50PSI FP. The popular Ford 24's flow 25.34lbs when used in Vette with 43.5 PSI. This makes the car run rich at idle and WOT (many threads about this in the Forum). You need a scanner to see this. They are too big in my opinion for cars under 350hp but everybody do what they want.
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 3:56 PM 8/16/2002]
Yes your stock injectors are plenty for you even if you do some mods. Here is my argument:
19-22lbs/hr (GM rating) is the ok for stock L98 cars and 22 is enough up to 305hp so they work with stock LT-1 cars too. Actually 17.5lbs would be sufficient for stock L-98's but it is recommended to go 1 bigger ie. 19lbs. For some reason GM used even bigger ones with Vettes so 22 is ok as the computer can compensate.
Ford 19's flow 20.6 lbs with stock press and 21.5 lbs @ 50PSI FP. The popular Ford 24's flow 25.34lbs when used in Vette with 43.5 PSI. This makes the car run rich at idle and WOT (many threads about this in the Forum). You need a scanner to see this. They are too big in my opinion for cars under 350hp but everybody do what they want.
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 3:56 PM 8/16/2002]
Le Mans Master
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From: Sachse Texas
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (ToniH)
I use the Ford injectors. I have heard quality issues with the Accel from people here on this board.
According to the calculators, mine has too small of injectors. However, in engine scans, I am just fine.
If you don't need new injectors, you will not gain anything from a swap.
According to the calculators, mine has too small of injectors. However, in engine scans, I am just fine.
If you don't need new injectors, you will not gain anything from a swap.
Le Mans Master
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From: Airport Cruise-in 1 Veteran Airport Cruise-in 2 Veteran
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (Vette92)
According to the calculators, mine has too small of injectors. However, in engine scans, I am just fine.
Scan I will! :yesnod:
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (95AquaC4)
If you think your injectors are dirty, do a bit of research on the net on cleaning them. 3M has a cleaner the can be hooked up to the fuel system under the hood and will clean the injectors in about 10 minutes while the engine runs. If the injectors are bad, replace them. Don't waste your money sending them out to be reconditioned. The important parts like the coils and injection mechanism cannot be rebuilt so reconditioning is really just cleaning, new O rings, and new inlet screens.
I would stay away from Accel injectors. A lot of us have had problems with them. Get Ford Motorsport ones. Go with the 24#s if you are absolutely sure your won't go to a stroker or blower setup and don't want to reprogram. Go with 30#s if you are willing to reprogram the ecm. The car will run fine with larger injectors and they cost the same.
I would stay away from Accel injectors. A lot of us have had problems with them. Get Ford Motorsport ones. Go with the 24#s if you are absolutely sure your won't go to a stroker or blower setup and don't want to reprogram. Go with 30#s if you are willing to reprogram the ecm. The car will run fine with larger injectors and they cost the same.
Drifting
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From: West Islip New York
Re: Lets talk injectors. (ToniH)
Ford 19's flow 20.6 lbs with stock press and 21.5 lbs @ 50PSI FP. The popular Ford 24's flow 25.34lbs when used in Vette with 43.5 PSI. This makes the car run rich at idle and WOT (many threads about this in the Forum). You need a scanner to see this. They are too big in my opinion for cars under 350hp but everybody do what they want.
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 3:56 PM 8/16/2002]
ToniH
[Modified by ToniH, 3:56 PM 8/16/2002]
By the way, I'm a happy user of Accel injectors. By all means talk to Rich at Cruzinperformance before doing anything.
[Modified by 1MoorTym, 9:08 PM 8/16/2002]
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Re: Lets talk injectors. (ToniH)
I'm getting ready to do injectors next month. Idle is irradic and I was informed by the repair shop that the number 1 is shorted out . From everything I've read here on the forum, I was planning on using the Ford 24# units. Would this be the way to go on a stock 1990 L98 or not? :confused: