Bad Lifter? Anyone?
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Sachse Texas
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Bad Lifter? Anyone?
[RANT]OK, so I switched back to a hydraulic lifter setup on my car to get more dependability out of it. Well Friday night I was messing with some friends, did a 1-2 gear romp and when I let off I would hear some faint ticking coming from the engine. Well, it turns out the exhaust lifter on the #1 cylinder will not stay pumped up at RPM's under around 2K. I was able to put in a lifter with 80K miles on it and tried it out for verification and it seems to work just fine.
The lifter was brand new as of 6/6/02. Has anyone had a hydraulic roller lifter fail in this way? If so, did you find a reason, or was it just bad luck in getting a bad one that passed through QA. I do have a replacement on the way from Jeff Kopp who is overnighting it for me since I have a big race this coming weekend. But this little problem is costing me overnighting charges as well as a new intake gasket cost. I am just tired of getting nickel and dimed in fixing these little problems like this. I hate to think it is just the price you pay for high performance, but it is not a radical setup IMO.[rant off]
The lifter was brand new as of 6/6/02. Has anyone had a hydraulic roller lifter fail in this way? If so, did you find a reason, or was it just bad luck in getting a bad one that passed through QA. I do have a replacement on the way from Jeff Kopp who is overnighting it for me since I have a big race this coming weekend. But this little problem is costing me overnighting charges as well as a new intake gasket cost. I am just tired of getting nickel and dimed in fixing these little problems like this. I hate to think it is just the price you pay for high performance, but it is not a radical setup IMO.[rant off]
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Sachse Texas
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Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (ittlfly)
Nothing is wrong with the pushrod, just the lifter. I can adjust the lash on the lifter with the motor running and it holds the pressure as long as I am adjusting it down. Once I stop adjusting it looses the ability to maintain the "hydraulic" value and starts to tick. Also, when I replaced it with the old lifter, all is well. I just reused the intake gasket that was on there for the test, so I still have to pull everything back apart when the new lifter comes in. In only takes about an hour to tear everything down, and about an hour to put everything back together so it is not a big time issue.
When I was checking out the bad lifter, I could not move the internals at all by applying pressure with my hands. I though maybe the internal spring in the lifter had broken or something.
When I was checking out the bad lifter, I could not move the internals at all by applying pressure with my hands. I though maybe the internal spring in the lifter had broken or something.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,212
Likes: 10
From: Sun City West Az
Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (Vette92)
Strange, it being a new lifter and all. However, if you eliminate everything else, like push rod, valve spring etc. then ...............I guess anything is possible.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (Vette92)
A friend of mine had a brand new comp cams pro mag lifter come apart on him. Luckily the pushrod kept it from spraying parts across the engine.
I don't know what you mean by nickel and dime. Neither does my ECM and opti wiring harness.... :crazy:
I don't know what you mean by nickel and dime. Neither does my ECM and opti wiring harness.... :crazy:
Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 603
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From: LUFKIN TX
Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (Vette92)
Chris,
I had the same problem with my first set of lifters on my 92. I could actually push on the back side of the rocker and compress the spring in the lifter. How much seat pressure are you running now that you are back to a hydraulic? I think that mine went bad due to my heads not being set up right, and they were coil binding. I also noticed that some were oiling more than others. I had the same ticking that you did. When I would first crank the car, the lifters would have to pump up.
BTW: The Opti was not the only thing that was wrong with mine. I still had the miss on the dyno last week. I changed the plug wires last night, and I think that fixed the problem. I am going to dyno tonight, so I can know for sure. :cheers:
I had the same problem with my first set of lifters on my 92. I could actually push on the back side of the rocker and compress the spring in the lifter. How much seat pressure are you running now that you are back to a hydraulic? I think that mine went bad due to my heads not being set up right, and they were coil binding. I also noticed that some were oiling more than others. I had the same ticking that you did. When I would first crank the car, the lifters would have to pump up.
BTW: The Opti was not the only thing that was wrong with mine. I still had the miss on the dyno last week. I changed the plug wires last night, and I think that fixed the problem. I am going to dyno tonight, so I can know for sure. :cheers:
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Sachse Texas
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Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (DRAGRACR)
To be honest I do not recall the pressures but they are not very high. Somewhere around 155/300 I think. They are the Comp Cams 978 springs installed a little shorter than the specs to add a little spring pressure for the cam as recommended by Comp. Should be well within specs for the springs and lifters. The rest of the lifters are fine, it is just the one which has failed. I guess that is a good sign at least. I can let the car sit for 3-4 days and the lifters do not pump down to a noticable level.
Hope you have your problem fixed for the weekend ;). I should if all goes the way it is planned. Reinstalled my drivers side header last night due to an exhaust leak that I think was in the #1 cylinder too. Hopefully the leak is gone. Tonight I should have all the parts in to swap the roller to the new one. That should give me a day to drive it around and check for problems at least before loading it on my trailer for the weekend. See you Friday. We will probably be leaving around 3:30-4p from North Dallas. :cheers:
Hope you have your problem fixed for the weekend ;). I should if all goes the way it is planned. Reinstalled my drivers side header last night due to an exhaust leak that I think was in the #1 cylinder too. Hopefully the leak is gone. Tonight I should have all the parts in to swap the roller to the new one. That should give me a day to drive it around and check for problems at least before loading it on my trailer for the weekend. See you Friday. We will probably be leaving around 3:30-4p from North Dallas. :cheers:
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Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (DRAGRACR)
The guys at Total Engine Airflow here in Bowling Green like to set up their heads with 140 seat pressure. To date I don't know of anybody who has complained about the lifters. Myself included but I have comp cams Pro Mag's so maybe that's helping me a little.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Sachse Texas
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Re: Bad Lifter? Anyone? (Nathan Plemons)
From my readings, I think the threshold is closer to 180, but usually people recommend right around 150 as the threshold.
I checked out my springs in the catalog. They are 126 @ 1.850", 368 @ 1.250" and coil bind at 1.195". I have them installed right close to 1.8-1.825" putting the pressure up just a little to around 150. Since my cam only had .544 lift on the exhaust with my rockers, I am far from coil bind.
I just expected the GMPP lifters (LT4 I think) to handle the pressures and RPMs to 6500. The Comp rep recommended the Comp R series lifters for revs past 6500, but no one had them in stock and they were B/O when I was doing the swap (plus I don't spin that high). He did not expect me to have any problems with the GM lifters though. Maybe I just got a bad one. It was just interesting that it failed after doing a 1-2-3 romp (said 1-2 before, but first just spun to 6300 like butter and 2nd was just a spin and a blur to the shift lift too) . It has been running better than ever so I guess that was the problem. :rolleyes:
I checked out my springs in the catalog. They are 126 @ 1.850", 368 @ 1.250" and coil bind at 1.195". I have them installed right close to 1.8-1.825" putting the pressure up just a little to around 150. Since my cam only had .544 lift on the exhaust with my rockers, I am far from coil bind.
I just expected the GMPP lifters (LT4 I think) to handle the pressures and RPMs to 6500. The Comp rep recommended the Comp R series lifters for revs past 6500, but no one had them in stock and they were B/O when I was doing the swap (plus I don't spin that high). He did not expect me to have any problems with the GM lifters though. Maybe I just got a bad one. It was just interesting that it failed after doing a 1-2-3 romp (said 1-2 before, but first just spun to 6300 like butter and 2nd was just a spin and a blur to the shift lift too) . It has been running better than ever so I guess that was the problem. :rolleyes:
