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Yes, what I meant was that both will reach the same temp after a long time. However, if the coolant you are using to cool the oil is also then being sent to cool the heads, each pass through the radiator becomes less and less effective as they both continue to rise in temp. After about 15min on track the water is no longer effectively cooling the oil to keep them out of dangerous temperature ranges. Add in the fact that airflow is compromised as you follow other cars and temperatures will spike quickly. Is the oil temp climbing more slowly with the 230° coolant than if it had no coolant at all? Yes, but not enough was my point. Put that oil out front in some 70-90° air and it will keep cool for much longer.
I guess what you're talking about is a lack of cooling capacity. Need a bigger radiator. You can accomplish that by adding an external cooler as you suggested. That works. OR you could add the same increase in surface area with a larger radiator for a similar effect.
The thing that I "don't get" is that I've never had cooling or oil temp issues w/my LT1 at the track...even, or typically in summer conditions. So, I find it odd to read about 300* oil temps....in a lower reving engine. If it were my car, I'd probably be looking critically at the cooling system if I were observing those numbers in 30* ambient temps.
Another pin hole in the fuel line - rusted out from the inside Washed the car - ready to drive to the track and shake down! The second car to bear the name
acquired wiper arms and a pair of used rear calipers for $100
started the car and moved it out of the back of the garage
put the car on scales it weighs 2884 with passenger seat and very little gasoline
installed the bulbs on the 3rd brake light and reassembled it - now working
idiot light for brakes was lit on the dash. Traced that problem to the ebrake. If the ebrake is set the switch completes the circuit. So when the switch fails the circuit stays completed. To address this I removed the wire.
started troubleshooting cooling fan. Fan appears to not come on by 230. I checked several things - fan is good, diagnostic port can be used to make the fan turn on, leaving the circuit for the ECTS. I tried checking the voltage coming from the ECU - which seems to give an error in my meter. After that I decided to run it and warm it up. During the warm up I noticed the temp at the gauge was noticeably higher than at the thermostat. Had to abort when I noticed car was leaking gas in the back. It's a steel fuel line again.
rear calipers rebuilt and installed, LF caliper installed, bleed the brakes
wipers and wiper arms installed
defective fuel line removed and replaced with copper (temporary). Reinstall inner the RR fender. It was another pin hole rusted from the inside. Will need to replace entire line at some point before racing
Conti tires are now all installed and balanced ready to go on the car
Install engine oil pressure sensor for aftermarket gauge
Block the heater openings with metal
Wire in a cigarette lighter power adapter
Remove some shims to reduce positive front camber, and adjust toe in
Installed hood pins
Block up air leak in roof
All this was in preparation for the track day on 11/2/19.
We were limited in our stints due to power steering fluid overheating (260 degrees in 10 minutes) and the engine oil not far behind (300 degrees). Trans temp stayed near 190 degrees. Air fuel ratio goes full lean at WOT.
We also had issues with the rusty brake rotors. The Continental tires never made it over 120 degrees, and were definitely not the best gripping tires. The softer springs and sway bars of the base model gave this car some lean under high load cornering, which is not to my liking. Still in my first stint out I managed a 1:21 lap time, which is promising.
We also lost some shims for the hood brackets on track – the bolts were loose and they vibrated out. I should not have assumed the prior owner would have tightened that down. They can be easily replaced.
Overall the car performed well. The natural cornering ability is awesome, and it managed 112 mph on the back straight. You can get back to the throttle way earlier with this car on corner exit than the Saturn. I am very happy with the test results, and plenty of to dos for the car
There were two other Vettes there – C5 and C7, both of which gave me the point by on track. I know people aren't racing at track days but still fun to put our day 1 shakedown car close to its limits and catch the newer technology.
Also discovered that the wiper motor does not work, and the headlights while working, only work on bright and I could not adjust one side down to offset. Got some light rain on the way home fortunately that was all and I was able to drive through it
The car ran 150 miles that day, way more than it had since it was purchased.
Since then I have done some research on the power steering and the lean condition. Regarding lean I checked the fuel pressure and it is in spec. I am still not sure the cause. Right now I suspect one of the following:
1) Bad AFR gauge
2) Wrong fuel injectors
3) O2 sensor sending bad data to ECU
4) MAF sending bad data to ECU <- leader right now
Power steering should be easily resolved with an external cooler. I have tracked down the part #s for the bracket and the factory cooler. If I can obtain a bracket I can probably entertain an aftermarket cooler if I put it in the same place on the car.
Replace fish tank vacuum line with real vacuum line – to throttle body and fuel pressure regulator
Installed longer bolts between the knuckle and rear leaf - lowered about 1/2" but can now adjust this another 1" maybe
Shakedown tests on Friday 11/1 uncovered the brakes still overheating. I first suspected the ABS, but troubleshooting uncovered brake booster rod was too long. Removed the master cylinder to grind it down only to find it being adjustable.
Another pin hole in the fuel line - rusted out from the inside Washed the car - ready to drive to the track and shake down! The second car to bear the name
acquired wiper arms and a pair of used rear calipers for $100
started the car and moved it out of the back of the garage
put the car on scales it weighs 2884 with passenger seat and very little gasoline
installed the bulbs on the 3rd brake light and reassembled it - now working
idiot light for brakes was lit on the dash. Traced that problem to the ebrake. If the ebrake is set the switch completes the circuit. So when the switch fails the circuit stays completed. To address this I removed the wire.
started troubleshooting cooling fan. Fan appears to not come on by 230. I checked several things - fan is good, diagnostic port can be used to make the fan turn on, leaving the circuit for the ECTS. I tried checking the voltage coming from the ECU - which seems to give an error in my meter. After that I decided to run it and warm it up. During the warm up I noticed the temp at the gauge was noticeably higher than at the thermostat. Had to abort when I noticed car was leaking gas in the back. It's a steel fuel line again.
rear calipers rebuilt and installed, LF caliper installed, bleed the brakes
wipers and wiper arms installed
defective fuel line removed and replaced with copper (temporary). Reinstall inner the RR fender. It was another pin hole rusted from the inside. Will need to replace entire line at some point before racing
Conti tires are now all installed and balanced ready to go on the car
Install engine oil pressure sensor for aftermarket gauge
Block the heater openings with metal
Wire in a cigarette lighter power adapter
Remove some shims to reduce positive front camber, and adjust toe in
Installed hood pins
Block up air leak in roof
All this was in preparation for the track day on 11/2/19.
We were limited in our stints due to power steering fluid overheating (260 degrees in 10 minutes) and the engine oil not far behind (300 degrees). Trans temp stayed near 190 degrees. Air fuel ratio goes full lean at WOT.
We also had issues with the rusty brake rotors. The Continental tires never made it over 120 degrees, and were definitely not the best gripping tires. The softer springs and sway bars of the base model gave this car some lean under high load cornering, which is not to my liking. Still in my first stint out I managed a 1:21 lap time, which is promising.
We also lost some shims for the hood brackets on track – the bolts were loose and they vibrated out. I should not have assumed the prior owner would have tightened that down. They can be easily replaced.
Overall the car performed well. The natural cornering ability is awesome, and it managed 112 mph on the back straight. You can get back to the throttle way earlier with this car on corner exit than the Saturn. I am very happy with the test results, and plenty of to dos for the car
There were two other Vettes there – C5 and C7, both of which gave me the point by on track. I know people aren't racing at track days but still fun to put our day 1 shakedown car close to its limits and catch the newer technology.
Also discovered that the wiper motor does not work, and the headlights while working, only work on bright and I could not adjust one side down to offset. Got some light rain on the way home fortunately that was all and I was able to drive through it
The car ran 150 miles that day, way more than it had since it was purchased.
Since then I have done some research on the power steering and the lean condition. Regarding lean I checked the fuel pressure and it is in spec. I am still not sure the cause. Right now I suspect one of the following:
1) Bad AFR gauge
2) Wrong fuel injectors
3) O2 sensor sending bad data to ECU
4) MAF sending bad data to ECU <- leader right now
Power steering should be easily resolved with an external cooler. I have tracked down the part #s for the bracket and the factory cooler. If I can obtain a bracket I can probably entertain an aftermarket cooler if I put it in the same place on the car.
Replace fish tank vacuum line with real vacuum line – to throttle body and fuel pressure regulator
Installed longer bolts between the knuckle and rear leaf - lowered about 1/2" but can now adjust this another 1" maybe
Shakedown tests on Friday 11/1 uncovered the brakes still overheating. I first suspected the ABS, but troubleshooting uncovered brake booster rod was too long. Removed the master cylinder to grind it down only to find it being adjustable.
the saga of a cheap c4 being turned into a champcar continues!!! thnx for the update mint!!
Did troubleshooting on the MAF. The car will run with it disconnected and gave me AFR in the 16 range at WOT. Not great but better than the max lean. Also confirms MAF is the issue. New MAF acquired and installed
Test drives created an oil leak which turned out to be power steering fluid. Lower hose clamp slightly loose. Shortened the hose it was laying on the steering input shaft. Also drained the reservoir and found the fluid to be quite brown. Wimpy fluid cooking at 260 degrees.
Adjusted the hood so it won't hit driver door and aligned the hood pins/ opened up the holes for alignment
Taped up the hole in the A pillar both sides (where wires to door power accessories go)
Fixed the headlights – low beams both burnt out but the high beams work. Replace vertical adjuster on passenger side so I can now point both of them down
Updated my project to do list – organized into categories
Investigate radiator options. Current .75”, HD stock 1.25”, Frostbite 2 row 1.57” and Frostbite 3 row 2.2”
Changed the oil filter. Opened the old filter to check engine health. No metal shavings or sparkly oil which is good. Carbon being cleaned out of the crank and accumulating in the filter.
Learned the C4 wheels I have are all directional. LOL I have two on backwards.
Power steering fluid after 150 miles! most Vette owners take working headlights for granted. right now its an accomplishment. still a ways to go till all the lights work. my mule engine had a bit of crap in the crankcase. I did not rebuild this engine just changed enough parts so it would run. I was a bit concerned about the low oil pressure when it got hot, but glad to find no metal shavings in here. It's just a bit loose on clearances apparently!
I guess what you're talking about is a lack of cooling capacity. Need a bigger radiator. You can accomplish that by adding an external cooler as you suggested. That works. OR you could add the same increase in surface area with a larger radiator for a similar effect.
The thing that I "don't get" is that I've never had cooling or oil temp issues w/my LT1 at the track...even, or typically in summer conditions. So, I find it odd to read about 300* oil temps....in a lower reving engine. If it were my car, I'd probably be looking critically at the cooling system if I were observing those numbers in 30* ambient temps.
Not beat a dead horse, but I was searching something here and found THIS THREAD from one of my track days. In addition to the text, the included video gives a pretty clear illustration as to how I was driving MY car on the track, RPM, etc. in August. I also pointed out the temps that resulted:
Oil temps never went above 270, coolant never went above 210
^That was on a stock radiator. As I stated earlier, if a lower revving L98 has got oil temps going over 300*F...with an oil cooler...in cold ambient temps....I'd be having a serious look at the cooling system. It ain't working.
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Nov 22, 2019 at 02:35 PM.
^That was on a stock radiator. As I stated earlier, if a lower revving L98 has got oil temps going over 300*F...with an oil cooler...in cold ambient temps....I'd be having a serious look at the cooling system. It ain't working.
Originally Posted by Mostmint
This car does not have the factory coolers for power steering or engine oil.
For the record, it had no engine oil cooler of any kind during that time or at the moment. I have every intention of adding one before racing.
This was just me on a voyage of discovery about how how the oil temps get and the absolute need for engine oil cooling
My LT1 has no oil cooler. No stock LT1 came with any oil cooler.
ALL L98's came with a factory oil cooler. That is (one reason) why your high oil temps make no sense. You should have a factory oil cooler. It was cold out. The L98 is a low raving engine.
Did troubleshooting on the MAF. The car will run with it disconnected and gave me AFR in the 16 range at WOT. Not great but better than the max lean. Also confirms MAF is the issue. New MAF acquired and installed
Test drives created an oil leak which turned out to be power steering fluid. Lower hose clamp slightly loose. Shortened the hose it was laying on the steering input shaft. Also drained the reservoir and found the fluid to be quite brown. Wimpy fluid cooking at 260 degrees.
Adjusted the hood so it won't hit driver door and aligned the hood pins/ opened up the holes for alignment
Taped up the hole in the A pillar both sides (where wires to door power accessories go)
Fixed the headlights – low beams both burnt out but the high beams work. Replace vertical adjuster on passenger side so I can now point both of them down
Updated my project to do list – organized into categories
Investigate radiator options. Current .75”, HD stock 1.25”, Frostbite 2 row 1.57” and Frostbite 3 row 2.2”
Changed the oil filter. Opened the old filter to check engine health. No metal shavings or sparkly oil which is good. Carbon being cleaned out of the crank and accumulating in the filter.
Learned the C4 wheels I have are all directional. LOL I have two on backwards.
Power steering fluid after 150 miles! most Vette owners take working headlights for granted. right now its an accomplishment. still a ways to go till all the lights work. my mule engine had a bit of crap in the crankcase. I did not rebuild this engine just changed enough parts so it would run. I was a bit concerned about the low oil pressure when it got hot, but glad to find no metal shavings in here. It's just a bit loose on clearances apparently!
mint, my 86 had lowish pressure at HOT idle. i switched to 15w50 for my track day and left it in there as my idle stayed at 35psi up from 20.
it also had crap in the engine. lots of carbon that was gritty. at first i thought it was sand!!
i did run plenty of high additive oil through it and got it real hot and after 4 oil changes it stayed clean. ymmv!
Last edited by VikingTrad3r; Nov 23, 2019 at 01:19 PM.
ALL L98's came with a factory oil cooler. That is (one reason) why your high oil temps make no sense. You should have a factory oil cooler. It was cold out. The L98 is a low raving engine.
This car does not have the oil cooler. According to this site http://www.vettefacts.com/C4/1989.aspx 76% of Corvettes in 1989 came with that option.
KC4 is the RPO code for the engine oil cooler. Mine does not have that RPO code nor does it have the oil cooler. I've seen them I understand the hose routing - none of that came with the car.
My LT1 has no oil cooler. No stock LT1 came with any oil cooler.
ALL L98's came with a factory oil cooler. That is (one reason) why your high oil temps make no sense. You should have a factory oil cooler. It was cold out. The L98 is a low raving engine.
It's weird that it got so hot.
Yeah Tom it wasnt the case that all L98’s came with the cooler. I believe it was possible to order the kc4 as an option on its own, and it was definitely part of the z51 package.
As an example, my 86 4+3 didnt come with one, it was a base manual car. Whereas my 87 auto z52 does have one and it did infact run anout 8deg celsius cooler than the non kc4 86. So i found one given to me as a gift from mike holmens 85. I installed it and all i needed to do was to use the blue silicon heater hose, a brass 90, and them some brass fittings added to the return line of the heatercore to the waterpump.
mint if it helps here is what i used to put a kc4 onto my car. It definitely helped my 86 run cooler. there are numbers in the thread. (in the end my hot was caused by the plugged cat. im convinced the hot oil actually helped my sludge cleaning though hahahaha).
Yes it has been working well there. I am thinking of adding an adapter where the headlight was for remote oil filter next. The filter is pretty close to the header.
This reminds me of my first race car build, a 1983 VW GTI. I think my body still hurts.
Regarding fuel... I installed a wide band O2 sensor and led gauge on my 1st car. I wish like all hell I had done it on my 2nd which was a 580hp GT1 scca car.. would have saved me thousands.. I was stupid and didnt know the PO had installed qualifying jets in the carb. You should not be guessing at fuel to air ratio, its too expensive. These things are cheap these days.
I didnt see if you installed a cage yet.. I had mine hand fabricated.. the one thing I didnt skimp on.. didnt care about safety but I wanted my car to be rock solid and an aftermarket cage never fits right. Ok, rarely fits right. My 2 cents.
and could you please get rid of those iron heads? Its disturbing to me
Removed 100 lbs of weight from the car: side windows converted to removable, lots of non essential wiring, heater core, blower motor and most air ducts, horns, radio antenna, trunk shade, A/C condenser, evap canister
Basic systems back on line: exterior lights and directionals, windshield wipers, missing K frame replaced, missing center inner fender RF, brake system (replaced master cylinder, brake booster, replaced/rebuilt all calipers), replace melted right side rocker panel, install air filter
Upgrade to fiberglass top
Create and install temporary gauge panel
Install hood pins, install longer bolts to lower the rear – offsetting lift from weight reduction
Acquire usable tires
Extensive research and making decisions on initial car setup including: brakes, radiator, roll cage
Obtain ability to read factory ECU real time to help with troubleshooting
Did several street tests and uncovered an array of problems
Preliminary track day test. Collected valuable data, uncovered potential of the car and multiple issues
$6k invested so far
Drove the car over 200 miles this year. May not sound like a lot but it was a lot more than the last 10+ years combined. 61139 was mileage when purchased, today its 61345
Major to do categories: driveability, planning, durability, track day #2 planning, track day # 3 planning, engine build, transmission build, weight reduction, remaining spares, first race prep
Get on the road course for a track day – done 2019
Driveability
Durability
Track day #2
Engine and transmission build
Track day #3
First race. Current tentative plan is to race in October
Clearly did not meet original expectations to race car in 2019. Burned a lot of cycles acquiring and prepping my daughter's Charger pursuit and prepping/fixing the Saturn for two races, plus this project is a lot bigger than originally anticipated
Last edited by Mostmint; Dec 31, 2019 at 07:41 PM.
Since last update:
* removed the power window mechanisms and set up a method to install the windows for storage and driving around on cold days. The windows, mechanism and wiring was 37 lbs
* acquired ALDL cable and software to tap into factory ECU. Install on my laptop and run some tests. Nothing obvious wrong
* got the wipers working it was just a fuse lol
* horn wires and evap canister wires are out of the harness, as are the remaining parts of all unnecessary circuits on the driver side wiring harness, all the rear view mirror and visor vanity light wiring and the spare wires in the passenger side harness also removed.
The wiper arms were too high. I raised the hood as far as I could then decided a little clearance should be cut in the hood. Easier than buying low profile wipers. The LF running light bulb socket is on the right. Somehow the ground tab is off. On the left is the replacement that came from my Saturn inventory. Something that should be easy ended up being a project. But it had to give eventually Removing some of the wires from the harness on the left of the firewall Went shopping last weekend. We needed a new driver window - we broke the original when we ground off one of the bolts and the heat shattered the glass. The support I fabricated to hold up the window for transport/storage purposes Window in after the removal of the power window mechanism
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Slideshow: A Jaguar designer's personal project imagines what a modern front-engined Corvette might look like if Chevrolet revisited the golden age of the Stingray.
Thanks for pointing out the facts! 
