If you're talking about NASCAR, you're talking about a wind deflector/spoiler, a 30-70 degree reinforced steel plate mounted to the deck lid of the car all the way across. By deflecting the air upwards, the car is equally forced downwards. This makes downforce, and tons of drag too.

Drag on any object is purely dependent on the projected area perpendicular to the flow.

A wing is different. The profile of a wing is carefully engineered to develop a high pressure area on top and a lower pressure area on bottom... the opposite of an airplane wing. It doesn't have to block air to induce downforce, like a spoiler/deflector does, therefore it has less drag. It's effectiveness depends on the angle the incoming air hits it at, and your speed of course. If you tried to mount one of these at a significant angle (like a nascar spoiler), you'd get aerodynamic stall, less downforce, and it's profile would be pointless.

These body kit wings, are for looks more than function. The only ones that may be really effective for downforce are the really huge ricey looking adjustable aluminum bookshelf wings.

Also, a functional spoiler or wing will add downforce (and drag) at any speed. At 1 mph, it'll add downforce, at 15 mph, it'll add more downforce, at 100, it'll add even more. It doesn't just turn on like a switch when you hit 70 or 150, or any of these mysterious numbers people keep coming up with.

If in fact one of these wings can generate 150 pounds of downforce, it's equivalent to a man sitting on the back of your car. It'll cause back of the car to squat. When this happens, the front air dam will rise up, allowing more air underneath (more lift), the angle of the car will change (probably hurting it's downforce), and most of all, the spoiler will see even less air pressure, as it's now even further down below the roof line. So, it'll have less effect. Spoilers/wings are best on cars with very stiff springs, that don't squat.

In NASCAR, the rules force teams to use a spoiler to create tons of drag to slow the cars down. On the large superspeedways, they use really soft springs in back, and practically drag the butt end on the track, bottoming it out. This is to drop the spoiler further behind the roof line a few inches, so it sees less air, less downforce, and most of all, less drag.

You'll probably see the biggest effect when you're parked....
at a gas station, trying to refuel. :p: ...when you finally do get the nozzle in there, you might find out your credit card is rejected because you spend all your money on a pretty much pointless wing.

 

I'm going with the opinions posted that it's just for looks. And that's fine by me. My old '84 had a full Greenwood kit that I thought looked great on the car (Z51 suspension sucks on real roads though, believe me).

I do think that the wing only looks right on the sharp edged earlier C-4's and only with the full kit. The later rounded style just doesn't look quite right with anything aftermarket (although that ACI Stalker front end looks pretty cool.. just needs to be slightly narrower widthwise and have wrap-around side lights).

Let's see if these pics will show. Don't mind the 3rd brake light.. that and the body kit was added from the previous owner.









[Modified by Dan Parker '96, 9:44 AM 11/23/2002]

 

I think you might be giving GM a little too much credit on some things here. GM does what it does for a bottom line #1, and quality product #2. Sometimes the extreme thought goes into how they can recycle some parts into as many different vehicles as possible to create a bigger bottom line. I love my vette, but I think more thought and engineering could have produced a better vette when mine was produced. Some examples of poor design and lack of testing are headlights, the resistors on the AC controller, and the infamous dash cluster just to name a few. On later C4s I keep hearing over and over about the **** poor design of the optispark and it's location. If GM will compromise on other things why should I believe that they will design the perfect handling car for speeds of 150+mph when that is over double the speed limits. As far as it not being what GM had intended the only thing I have to say to that is neither is all the mods 90% of us have done to our vettes:free mods, strokers, blowers, changing wheels, camber braces, and the list goes on. If you like the wing, then put it on. You are the one who has to drive your vette each day so do whatever is going to make you feel good while driving it. Whew, that turned into a book. :D

 

Vette92, I read, and copied this from the article that you suggested to others to read about the "Sleghammer" Calloway corvette, and the no wing thing....... this is a copy and paste from that same article....... notice a strange qoute here?

"Reeves Callaway, Corvette Tuner Enhancer, has good reason to smile. His Twin Turbo Corvette will blow off the collective European supercar field. The wind- tunnel tested developed spoiler set for the Sledgehammer should help minimize lift up to the 400 kilometers per hour top speed.

Subtlety is the nice part of this package. The Sledgehammer has the dimensions of an entirely stock 88 Corvette. It is clad in a specially cut spoiler suit which the Callaway organization will have available off the self to other owners."
Not trying to start anything........ Lord knows that I got my share of bashing from some of you in the past about this same subject!! Have a good day all of you.

 

I am not wanting to flame anyone here, but do what you want to do. You are the one that paid for it, you get to decide what it looks like. It is your right as the car owner.

:seeya

 

It really depends on how BIG and the shape of the wing. I've seen some pretty tasteful spoilers that just angle up at the back corner of the deck. If it has two levels and stands more than 3 or 4 inches off the deck than leave it for the ricers. If your doing 200 MPH and it's actually helping the down-force and probably adjuastable than more power to ya'. I saw a 98 black firebird the other day with a double decker 6" mounted on top of the factory wrap-around spoiler. I thought that was a little much! :lol:

 

Since I didn't watch 'Inside NASCAR' (so I guess I'm not in the know), I guess I'll just have to rely on 30+ years of driving experience and common sense.

For the vast majority of vette owners (NON NASCAR DRIVERS - I believe :jester), wings serve no useful purpose.

I stand by my original statement, although I'll amend it to add that of course everyone is entitled to trash their car as they see fit. :D

 

 

:rolleyes:

Whatever...dude.

I thought the entire purpose of this forum was to share "knowledge". When someone states a personal opinion as fact, and it is entirely untrue, then it isn't knowledge. It is crap.

If you don't like wings/spoilers because of how they look I can understand that. When someone says they don't work unless you are going over 150 MPH I disagree.

Facts are wings & spoilers work. Just for grins check out the shots here at the Speed GT page http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2002/lrp/images2.html.

When the guys at Grand Sport Racing were involved, they were begging for a wing on the C5's as the Porsche's and Audi's were eating their lunch (they were allowed to run wings). Now the C5's are again competitive.

Oh...by the way...I don't think I see one GT car on the Speed GT site WITHOUT a wing.

I wonder why that is? :confused:

I guess they don't work...they just do it for looks so they can be like the ricers :lol:

Most of their races average around 90 MPH for a lap. Not in the 150+ range someone else mentioned that a wing was effective at.

I'll bow to your vast 30+ years of "experience". My 15 years of road-racing and 24 years of driving in general pale in comparison....

 

At least you are man enough to admit when you are wrong :lol:

Besides, if you actually read my post, I'm questioning the merits of a wing at 70 MPH, not 150MPH.



[Modified by lfmn16, 12:49 PM 11/21/2002]

 

Ok how about this point of view
I dont have a vette, but i have been in them many times. Do you need another 50lbs on the rear at 75mph?

I have a bone stock suspension Z28 with about 100lbs removed from it(mostly rear) and I am stable at 70mph.YOU HAVE A CORVETTE!
you are 2-3 inches lower, wider tires and MUCH BETTER weight distribution!
I was stable upto 110mph. how much down force could you possibly need!

Saying that mario andretti needs a spoiler and john force uses one is a completly obserd (sp?) argument!!!!
You have nothing in common with the C5R, mario andretti, john force, jeff gordon, rusty walace or anyone from the fast and the furious!
I dont care what Vin Diesel told you, now many times you played Nascar 2002 or how good of friends your dads, uncles, best friends cousin's stepson's red headed step son is with with John Force. :boxing

Comparing them to your stock street car is just dumb!
And to top it off, they hav percision engineered vehicles and are fighting for hundreths of a second. Mom wont mind if you show up at 6:00.02 for dinner
I promis;)

Get a spoiler if you like the way it looks, have $500 you dont know what to do with, you want to have midget fighting in a scenario like "the pit" from mortal combar or even because your girl friend wants to have kinkey erotic sex with a whip, 2 chimpanzee's and a sick duck in a corvette with spoiler- BUT FOR CHRIST SAKES! DONT GET IT BECAUSE YOU NEED 20 MORE POUNDS ON THE BACK OF YOUR CAR TO GET TO WORK!
:nono:nono

on a personal side note, a spoiler that is low and tasteful can look ok on a C4.
Any downforce produced at 150mph is going to push down on the rear. with your excellent wieght dist., aerodynamics and light cars overall, its going to lift the front end up a ton more easily than on somehing like an f-body or something. the front end will lift up more than it usually would (its already got a ton of air going under there!) and you might actually feel worse off!
Now if you had a front end spoiler the rules might change

ever see a Lemans car fly :eek: (not that you will fly OR EVEN COME CLOSE TO A LEMANS CAR but just to give you an idea of whats up when the front lifts up on an aerodynamic car) yes i do know i made an butt of myself by bringing in lemans cars after telling everyone how dumb it was to compare it to a top fuel car... but this is different :p: i think :conehead :hat

And thats all I have to say about that :smash:


[Modified by TreyZ28, 2:15 PM 11/21/2002]

 

I think the rear end of a Vette without some sort of spoiler looks silly. I will go against the grain here. If you like the looks, get it. If you want it for performance, that's not where to spend your money. Lots of people have Vettes... make yours stand out from the rest. I saw someone say everyone wants a Corvette... just leave it. Not everyone wants a Corvette... in fact most people don't want a Corvette. Just because we love them, doesn't mean everyone else does.

 

I like that spoiler! It accents the body lines right and it's not oversized. :yesnod:

 

Hey thanks! :) I appreciate it! :cheers:

 

This post sure opened up a can of worms. Almost like asking which is better: the Super Ram or Mini-Ram, but to each their own! :boxing

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

All you wanna-be aerodynamacists really crack me up. You guys are SO totally wrong about how a wing on a car works.

The only time that the front lifts on a car at high speeds is IF you are stupid enough to let air pressure build up under the nose. If you have a good front air-dam (you know...that black piece of ABS plastic bolted to the bottom of your front clip), as low to the ground as possible, the air pressure flowing over your hood will plant the front wheels just fine.

The force that air exerts on a car at speed increases exponentially. I can slow down 15 MPH in a few hundred feet just lifting on the throttle a little bit at 150 MPH.

And just for your education, some of the people on this forum build dual-purpose cars for street & racing duties. Mackey and quite a few others built theirs for strip use, but there are others who may wish to road-race like I and many others do. That wing might be there for high-speed stability, but when it is driven on the street it is definitely NOT just there for show. As someone else said, a wing starts to be effective at a lower speed and its effectiveness increases with speed.

I often wonder how well it will work on my car. I wonder if just those extra lbs of additional force on the rear wheels will keep them from going up in smoke when I hit 2nd gear like they do now at full throttle. I have the biggest, stickiest tires Goodyear Tire & Rubber make (I use Racing Eagles from the C5R's) that fit inside my fenders, and I can still smoke them.

Some of the rest of us DO, how did you phrase it, "have precision engineered vehicles and are fighting for hundreths of a second" every weekend we go to the track.

I'll repeat this again....Just because YOU don't like how a wing looks doesn't mean it isn't effective on the street. There is a big difference between not liking the looks and not being effective at low speeds. That extra weight and downforce can make the difference (in harmony with the suspension tweaks) between coming out of a corner at 75 MPH instead of 65 MPH.

THAT my friends is a BIG advantage in racing. It allows me to leave 'stangs (and other competition) way behind on the turns (the roads DO that sometimes :) ) I have a really beautiful sweeping, reducing radius turn on a not-so-used highway by my house. I run through it at 100 MPH (road signs say 45 MPH) and the tires barely squeal. I've now lost 2 Mustangs into the weeds on that turn trying to keep up with me.

With a wing I could likely take the same turn at 110-115 MPH.

I think by now you MAY get the point that many of us do not have a stock street car and need all the help we can get. For the rest, they want something that distinguishes their car from the rest of the crowd.

If the stock body was so great why did Callaway design the Aerobody? Why put it on a "street" car if you never break the national speed limit?

Because it is different, looks nice (to whomever buys it) and increases the aerodynamics of the car.

And that makes it a little safer to drive when you do break the law and drive like a bat-outta-hell.


[Modified by Joe90, 11:01 PM 11/21/2002]