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I get that you like the 84's. I am partial to a few cars that are not the fastest. Honestly there is always someone faster and a lot of people around here like to talk about HP out of the money they spend. In the grand scheme of things a 600HP C4 isn't even really that fast anymore when compared to some of the performance cars you can buy off the lot.
If you pursuit, like mine, is to just enjoy the time modifying your cars and enjoying them... then the 84 will fit the bill. If you are going for a certain level of performance, then 84 is not a good jumping off point. You can keep the C4 and go LT1/4 and have port fuel injection already, but tunign issues. You can go C5, but its a different look. So, If you want to keep the 84:
I would suggest you go to a complete new port fuel injection system that can be tuned.
This will solve the X-Fire issues, support as much as you probably would ever want to go with a street car, and be able to be tuned all in one package.
AFR or similar heads as suggested and a matching cam. Put headers on it and enjoy your 350-400hp SBC.
Can you retain all of the other computer functions on the 1984, or does it light up the service engine or anything?
I don’t think it will cost anywhere near that. I’m in Australia I have to pay for shipping and our dollar is ****.
I dropped a timing chain on my 84 and decided to fix it. I thought about an LS swap but there is a lot more cost and effort than just the engine. So because I had to replace the timing chain I decided to replace the cam. That snowballed into new heads and a renegade intake manifold roller rockers etc. That stuff cost me about $2000 US. I also did long pipe headers and a twin system but you would have to change the exhaust with an LS swap anyway.
My 84 goes pretty hard now and I love it. I think there is something cool about those crossfires. They were very restricted when new but once you get them to breath (which is quite easy these days) they are a lot of fun.
How do you like your Renegade? I heard that there were some bad castings come out. What was your experience?
How do you like your Renegade? I heard that there were some bad castings come out. What was your experience?
No nothing wrong with the castings, The castings are clean and the machine work is spot on. I did a test fit with gaskets before I covered the china walls in goop and the fit was perfect. Actually there was two minor problems,
1) There was a clearance problem where the oil pressure sensors are connected. The fitting on the rear of the engine fowled the manifold. There is plenty of material there so I just clearanced the manifold with a 4" grinder. Alternatively you could fit a different oil fitting that's not so chunky. Thinking about it its probably worth using a bit of oil line and rerouting in so it is easier to get at the oil pressure sensors.
2) The two blind bolt holes for bolting down the throttle bodies were not deep enough. So I had to shorten two of the throttle body bolts by about 1/2".
Both these issues are minor so yes I am very happy with the Renegade.
Last edited by GregMartin; Jun 2, 2019 at 03:49 AM.
How do you like your Renegade? I heard that there were some bad castings come out. What was your experience?
You were probably recalling my experience. Aside from the Helen Keller runner alignment... everything else was adequate... below is one of the better fitting runners. I'm not sure if it's the bolt holes, runners... or both. Since there is wiggle room on the gasket I'm going to finesse it to fit meh between the manifold and heads. The floor of the runner here has barely any gasket sealing it... it is what it is. My own screw up.
You were probably recalling my experience. Aside from the Helen Keller runner alignment... everything else was adequate... below is one of the better fitting runners. I'm not sure if it's the bolt holes, runners... or both. Since there is wiggle room on the gasket I'm going to finesse it to fit meh between the manifold and heads. The floor of the runner here has barely any gasket sealing it... it is what it is. My own screw up.
Mine looked better than that but I don't think I have any photos. I used a Fel-Pro 1206 gasket set (I didn't use the cork bits for the china walls ) but my recollection is that it was a perfect fit. http://www.ebay.com.au/p/1206-Fel-Pr...d=192867067061
Mine looked better than that but I don't think I have any photos. I used a Fel-Pro 1206 gasket set (I didn't use the cork bits for the china walls ) but my recollection is that it was a perfect fit. http://www.ebay.com.au/p/1206-Fel-Pr...d=192867067061
Yea. That's actually a 1205 I have. That's what it calls for with stock heads. I'll eventually get around to fixing it I guess... or make it a door stop.
Yea. That's actually a 1205 I have. That's what it calls for with stock heads. I'll eventually get around to fixing it I guess... or make it a door stop.
I’m sure it’s fine. I did wonder why you had the lid glued on to the renegade. Pretty hard to get the bolts in like that 😂😂😂
Engines 1992-2002+ for Japanese variants are suitable for high performance
however
Engines 2001-2008 for Chevrolet variants are suitable for high performance
Nothing Chevrolet produced before 2001 is "acceptable" because it will be missing: block casting/creation, core exactness/precision cast, superior strength & metallurgy clearances are tightly regulated from 2001+ in Chevrolet production engines, small spaces and thin oil 5W30 like Japanese variants main girdledesign, block support begins to mirror Japanese variants head/intake seal and capability as OEM valves/ports oil pan support and seals updated to resemble Japanese variants exhaust manifold orientation (reversible) and plug orientation (easier to access) timing equipment and oil pump "high potential" to work properly, reliable to high mileage Robust seqefi multi-coil, modern injector phasing style factory stand-alone capability with high resolution (.00X timing map distribution memory) ~200lb/hr injectors, using $30 computer hardware to control a multi-coil sequential EFI with injectors of choice high impedance... it is alot of power for cheap computer, and no one will steal it
These engines with proper maintenance history (look for a crashed Escalade or Denali) after inspection are quality candidates for Forced induction 500-1000rwhp applications.
The tight factory clearances and undisturbed bottom end means no machine shop intervention, no down time installing the motor or replacing one, and most importantly it will last a long time leak free if properly maintained.
The used factor (statistical relevance of over 100,000 sample populations that have gone over 250,000miles) increases the likelihood of success when using engines that have mileage, as opposed to a 'new' engine or 'crate engine'. In other words, a used LS motor from 2001-2008 with 120,000 miles is more likely to survive the next 200,000 miles than ANY rebuilt or crate engine you could possibly buy.
The reason they kill all other options (pre-2001 engines, V8 from any manufacturer) is because all of these improvements are available for about $500 per complete engine swap, average price. You just can't find or beat that 250,000 potential miles of reliability with 500-1000rwhp on the table with the over 100,000 units of population statistics guarantee per year survival rate for $500 per engine, roll the dice.
It is.
*Port the bejeezus out of your intake (or get a Renegade)
*Headers and full exhaust (LT1 take off, for cheap, bolt-in, true dual exhaust)
*"Feed it what it wants" (tune it)
That should get you there, or damn close. Add some cam if you want a more for very little $.
For less than $1000, you should be at or around 300 hp.
.
Last edited by Tom400CFI; Jun 3, 2019 at 01:16 PM.
It is.
*Port the bejeezus out of your intake (or get a Renegade)
*Headers and full exhaust (LT1 take off, for cheap, bolt-in, true dual exhaust)
*"Feed it what it wants" (tune it)
That should get you there, or damn close. Add some cam if you want a more for very little $.
For less than $1000, you should be at or around 300 hp.
.
I am not sure if a tune will be required. If I remember correctly fuel pressure and timing can be done manually.
Last edited by Steves LS6; Jun 3, 2019 at 01:53 PM.
not sure if this opens here, but a great thread in the same section....Greg’s thread! Good stuff in all seriousness in addition to Tom and the others here!
It is.
*Port the bejeezus out of your intake (or get a Renegade)
*Headers and full exhaust (LT1 take off, for cheap, bolt-in, true dual exhaust)
*"Feed it what it wants" (tune it)
That should get you there, or damn close. Add some cam if you want a more for very little $.
For less than $1000, you should be at or around 300 hp.
.
LT1 manifolds...I have a pair I was going to put up for sale
not sure if this opens here, but a great thread in the same section....Greg’s thread! Good stuff in all seriousness in addition to Tom and the others here!
Yeah I think a build like mine would work pretty well for him but there are also plenty of other good sugestions here. Parts are cheep in the US so I would be going for shiny new stuff. I don't know what HP mine is making but it feels resonably strong so I think it would be in that range. Once I get the EBL Flash II and do a tune I'll do a Dyno pull and then we will know.
the idea of LS is the turbocharger AND reliability at 500+whp
If you take the turbo from the table, power falls back down to 300~ ranges OEM.
The next best thing is high compression 350hp versions of the 5.7 produced between 98-01 which combine some of the seal and bearing clearance updates of newer LS engines, but because they are older they are cheaper than LS engines.
The only thing is that is a very specific range of years, 95 96 ~97? 98 versions. All of which are known to be performance engines. Performance enthusiasts owned those engines, before you get it. So even if you go to machine it, there may be some deformation or issue with a performance(modification) related incident
Whereas, the Denali engine has never been used for performance purposes. 150k on the 5.7 vs 150k on the Denali 6.0/4l80e, I doubt the 5.7 is in better shape, you decide. Theres never been a manual trans so there is no uneven loading and unloading of the crankshaft and rear areas fwiw with an auto, they are known to be 'gentler'. A T-56/4l80e 6.0 from a truck wouldn't be so bad without a turbo? I don't see why 450-500hp naturally aspirated is out of the question using such an engine. Honestly personal preference I always opt for the lighter block though, So the 5.7 wins if I was doing non turbo I would take the less weight with less power, older and cheaper.
Power is meaningless when you add a typical manual transmission, especially six speed. The correct way to build a manual trans car is to balance the torque and rotating mass of the engine against the weight of the drivetrain and vehicle so that it is easy and fun to drive. Most of you know what I am saying but it should become obvious right here that Manual transmissions are not racing transmissions, the automatic is/canbe a 'race car' trans but any option which invites user error to any degree is considered unsuitable unless it is a rule in that particular venue. i.e. Never shift a 4l80e manually and go to great lengths not to ever need to
