WOT tuning with wideband again please help
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Instructor
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From: Steinbach
WOT tuning with wideband again please help
Current bin
Hi
I’m doing it again and would like some input with formulas and which way to go. It’s been 3 years since last time.
Wideband is close but I’d like to riches it up a little.
Around 12.8-13.1 WOT around 3000k
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From: Glenbeulah Wi
Depends if you need to add fuel at all RPM bands or just 3000 RPM and up? If 3000 RPM and up add it to power enrichment vs RPM table. Make the numbers larger.
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Instructor
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From: Steinbach
Thx,
I’m trying to understand why the stock tune would lean the mixture as the rpm increases . Also the bump in at 2400 and 2800?
Its pretty close and the last time I tuned I stayed at 12.7 and lower, anyone running at 13.0 with any long term effects to the engine?
I’m trying to understand why the stock tune would lean the mixture as the rpm increases . Also the bump in at 2400 and 2800?
Its pretty close and the last time I tuned I stayed at 12.7 and lower, anyone running at 13.0 with any long term effects to the engine?
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From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
Your title says WOT. So, if you are running 12.7 - 13.1 all the way out at WOT, that's ok. Anywhere from 12.6 - 13.2 is fine. OR are you just concerned with PE? What software are you using?
Last edited by Buccaneer; Sep 17, 2019 at 07:33 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Steinbach
Just concerned with PE as installed a wideband to check after new injectors. It’s running great and pulls really strong up top.
The searches I’ve done have people saying 12.5-12.7.
Using tunerpro to tune with $32B mask and stock bin modified maf tables I datalogged with datamaster.
24lb Bosch 3 . Got it really close with injector constant at 27.5.
isnt it weird that there are negative numbers on the enrichment? That’s why I was considering adjusting the maf tables more and zeroing out the PE
The searches I’ve done have people saying 12.5-12.7.
Using tunerpro to tune with $32B mask and stock bin modified maf tables I datalogged with datamaster.
24lb Bosch 3 . Got it really close with injector constant at 27.5.
isnt it weird that there are negative numbers on the enrichment? That’s why I was considering adjusting the maf tables more and zeroing out the PE
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,137
Likes: 531
From: Glenbeulah Wi
Just concerned with PE as installed a wideband to check after new injectors. It’s running great and pulls really strong up top.
The searches I’ve done have people saying 12.5-12.7.
Using tunerpro to tune with $32B mask and stock bin modified maf tables I datalogged with datamaster.
24lb Bosch 3 . Got it really close with injector constant at 27.5.
isnt it weird that there are negative numbers on the enrichment? That’s why I was considering adjusting the maf tables more and zeroing out the PE
The searches I’ve done have people saying 12.5-12.7.
Using tunerpro to tune with $32B mask and stock bin modified maf tables I datalogged with datamaster.
24lb Bosch 3 . Got it really close with injector constant at 27.5.
isnt it weird that there are negative numbers on the enrichment? That’s why I was considering adjusting the maf tables more and zeroing out the PE
Safety Car
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From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
OK, I assume you are using TP version 5? I use TP, but an older version 4 that I like. With that said, all I can say is that when I was going through tuning school at EFI University we always shot for 12.6 at WOT, but it has gone up a tad since then on what they say is right or ok now. I personally wouldn't worry about it at all IMO. Anywhere in there is good, just feed the motor what it wants to get your AF where you want it. If you start going for the sky at WOT on the AF, then its time to add some fuel in those cells.
Last edited by Buccaneer; Sep 17, 2019 at 11:44 PM.
Le Mans Master
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From: St. Charles MO
That seems suspiciously like the torque peak created by the TPI intake, where the engine is getting a mild supercharger effect from the intake's resonant tuning. It would make sense that the tuning would some enrichment here, since the cylinder pressures are getting an extra spike, and this would help guard against detonation. Further up in the rpm range, it then follows that cylinder pressures start to fall rapidly due to the small cam and the out-of-phase resonance causing a drop in cylinder filling (as bjankuski noted).
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From: Glenbeulah Wi
FYI, The target AFR is set by the PE vs temperature table (in your case 14.7/1.226 = 12.00 AFR) and the fine tuning of the AFR by RPM is taken care of by the PE vs RPM table. Since you are getting 12.7 to 13 AFR that means your injector constant, or MAF table or both are slighty off. That does not really matter that much, if the car runs well and you can achieve your desired AFR by tweaking the PE vs RPM table then it is fine. There are many ways to acheive a good tune so find the way that works for you.
Is your MAS stock, if it is I leave the MAF tables alone and adjust injector constants to acheive a close AFR and then adjust PE vs RPM to fine tune the AFR.
Is your MAS stock, if it is I leave the MAF tables alone and adjust injector constants to acheive a close AFR and then adjust PE vs RPM to fine tune the AFR.
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From: Steinbach
88 L98 Headman longtubes 1.6 RR Ported plenum Unknown cam 3.54 Dana 44 , 52 BBK
The new numbers on PE
it was reading around 12.7 when I was going through the gears.
i noticed if I go wot in 4th from around 2000 it was running rich . Closer to 12 then started climbing as I accelerated. Must be load factors when calculating afr
Last edited by Billygoatkid; Sep 18, 2019 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Add info
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Lakeville MI
Please verify your resulting target AFR with a datalog (or do the math up-front). Data is your friend, don't try and do this blindly.
Here's an example of good correlation between Target AFR and WBO2. Data is from a dyno pull of a D1 Procharger, 383, miniram, maf car. Hot boost with water/methanol injection. Note: the tuning has already been compensated a bit for the additional fuel (methanol), so would tend to be a bit lean without the water/methanol injection and is therefore a bit risky if the tank runs dry or the pump fails.
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/test...0-248&mark=195
Here's an example of good correlation between Target AFR and WBO2. Data is from a dyno pull of a D1 Procharger, 383, miniram, maf car. Hot boost with water/methanol injection. Note: the tuning has already been compensated a bit for the additional fuel (methanol), so would tend to be a bit lean without the water/methanol injection and is therefore a bit risky if the tank runs dry or the pump fails.
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/test...0-248&mark=195
Last edited by tequilaboy; Sep 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Lakeville MI
Dyno data from same pull:
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/test...=11-12&mark=96
Let me know if anybody has trouble with links.
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/test...=11-12&mark=96
Let me know if anybody has trouble with links.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2014
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From: Steinbach
Wow that’s some setup!
thx for the reply you have helped me quite a bit in the past 😬
I will do some data logging, problem is I’m not able to feed my wideband into datamaster. The maf blm tuning is very close to 128 on my previous logs (not wot)
whats your take on the maf gm/s?
last years log resulted in 205 gm/s maximum although that wasn’t a top speed run. Thought I’d be higher than that with some internal mods to the engine and how responsive it’s down low.
thx for the reply you have helped me quite a bit in the past 😬
I will do some data logging, problem is I’m not able to feed my wideband into datamaster. The maf blm tuning is very close to 128 on my previous logs (not wot)
whats your take on the maf gm/s?
last years log resulted in 205 gm/s maximum although that wasn’t a top speed run. Thought I’d be higher than that with some internal mods to the engine and how responsive it’s down low.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 390
From: Lakeville MI
Another example log (Different car 383, P600B Procharger with intercooler, superram):
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/ae-t...5830&mark=5799
Added some custom signals (afr error and afr error%) intended for histogram analysis purposes. Also added some AE related signals to datastream in order to better understand AE activity. The purpose of this log was to evaluate some different AE tuning so lots of data under various driving conditions.
Many things to consider when comparing target afr to WB. Injector calibration, MAF calibration, WB calibration, hardware limitations, AE activity, AIR injection, presence of internal coolants, just to list a few.
Take advantage of the available data if you can.
https://datazap.me/u/tequilaboy/ae-t...5830&mark=5799
Added some custom signals (afr error and afr error%) intended for histogram analysis purposes. Also added some AE related signals to datastream in order to better understand AE activity. The purpose of this log was to evaluate some different AE tuning so lots of data under various driving conditions.
Many things to consider when comparing target afr to WB. Injector calibration, MAF calibration, WB calibration, hardware limitations, AE activity, AIR injection, presence of internal coolants, just to list a few.
Take advantage of the available data if you can.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 390
From: Lakeville MI
Tpi intake just isn't going to flow very much. 205-210 gm/sec sounds about right to me for plenum and/or runner porting or SLP runners with a stock base. Keep in mind I'm used to working with blower cars in the 400-500+ gm/sec range. Its been awhile since I've seen any N/A or close to stock tpi datalogs.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 390
From: Lakeville MI
The WBO2 0-5 volt signal can be fed into one of the ecm's MAP pins. With modified programming, the WBO2 signal can be read and added to the datastream for display as has been done in the logs that I've posted (TunerPro data exported to csv and cleaned up a bit for datazap).
I think DataMaster has a few custom channels available that can be used for this purpose.
Last edited by tequilaboy; Sep 20, 2019 at 02:41 PM.